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If you're new and have a question or need some advice, please give us as much information as you can about your situation in order for us to be able to help you as best we can. For example, it's helpful to know your BMI/weight, how much you want to lose, any medical conditions which might affect your weight and (if you've started fasting already) how you do your fasts in terms of splitting up your calories, what you eat etc. Thanks!

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Controlling non-fast days
18 Sep 2014, 21:26
Strangely I am having no trouble on my past days , feel quite empowered, it's my non-fast days that are out of control! I don't want to 'diet' on these days but am finding hard to know when to stop when the floodgates are open!
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 01:41
Hi, @Fastingrunner. I agree that fast days are often easier than the non-fasting ones...it seems strange, bit there it is! I tried journaling my eating - I don't bother to weigh food on non-fast days for the most part, but I find the practice of recording it on a calorie counter app and estimating the calories is a great way of being mindful about what I eat. Might be something to try :smile:
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 03:07
Hi @Fastingrunner, I do much the same thing if I feel like I'm eating too much. myfitnesspal is where I log my calories to check just how many I'm consuming on any given day. It's a great reality check for me.

My OH always reminds me "a short pencil is better than a long memory", :grin: and although there is no pencil involved, the principle is the same. All the best!
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 07:59
Hi @fastingrunner,
There several threads about this and its very common. At one stage there were "feasting today" support threads.

I suppose we have put on weight for a reason. Those reasons and unhealthy eating habbits are still there for 5 days of the week. I tend to emotionally eat, so on non-fast days I was always struggling with that inner bitch telling me "go on, you deserve a treat after doing a great fast". Then there is the skewed logic of "I can eat it now, I'm not fasting" or "well, I wont be able to have it tomorrow".

I say "was" as I think I have managed to curb that inner bitch! Fasting has reset my hormones so that I dont feel as hungry as quickly and now feel fuller quicker. So, when i do overeat it is more seldom and smaller portions now. This took a good 6 or 8 weeks on this woe.

But I still struggled with eating when I wasn't hungry. I went on a mental journey to sort this out. Realising that I emotionally eat and finding other self soothing methods was a light bulb moment. Lots of internet searches and reading phyc sites was really helpful.

chinchin wrote: ...My OH always reminds me "a short pencil is better than a long memory", :grin: and although there is no pencil involved, the principle is the same. All the best!


Haha, I love that saying @chinchin! Ive always had a short memory and Dad has Alzheimers, so its now a new favourite. :like:
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 08:06
Hi @Fastingrunner, my anecdotal observation from various IF sites is that feeling out of control with food or over-eating on non-fast days is common.

The
Happy Eaters
website has a forum where people discuss useful books. From various IF sites, my anecdotal impression is that it seems as if the sense of deprivation or restriction that accompanies IF for some people can trigger binge eating episodes (my impression is subjective and from people's reports and they tend to be at the less painful end of the clinical continuum - tho' still distressing), a sense of loss of control around food, or over-eating. One of the books that I've regularly seen recommended and commended is:

How to Have Your Cake and Your Skinny Jeans Too: Stop Binge Eating, Overeating and Dieting For Good Get the Naturally Thin Body You Crave From the Inside Out by Josie Spinardi (it's a Kindle but there's an app. that allows them to be read on phones or computers).

The overviews that I've seen highlight the following points:

The Dieting Triangle of Despair: Diet ---> Binge ---> Beat Self Up for Perceived Lack of Self-Discipline and Resolve to

Diet etc. etc.

Spinardi identifies 7 common reasons why the usual forms of dieting are inappropriate for sustainable, healthy weight loss:
1 Dieting intensifies cravings and preoccupation with food.
2 Dieting makes you eat more, not less. (For every diet there is an equal opposing binge. The extent and ferocity with which you binge is directly proportional to the extent to which you restrict what you eat.)
3 Dieting makes you feel out of control with food.
4 Dieting increases both emotional distress and the likelihood that you'll eat in response to the stress.
5 Dieting creates a whole new category of overeating called "Eating Cuz You Ate."
6 Diets don't model naturally thin eaters' behaviour.
7 Diets do not resolve the real reasons you eat when you're not hungry.

Spinardi emphasises what she calls Hunger-Directed Eating and highlights 5 types of Non-Hunger Eating:
1 Gasping for Food
2 Eating Cuz You Ate (I've blown the FD, I may as well carry on blowing it)
3 Mean Girl Munchies (@scubachick's 'inner bitch' sounds similar to this)
4 Licking Your Wounds
5 Recreational Eating

-----
"When deprivation is involved, not only to the pounds stay put, your feelings of powerlessness soar. So, an eating approach that completely eliminates deprivation is not only favorable, it is crucial to successfully achieving your long-term leanness."

"Binge eating is the natural result of food restriction, while emotional eating is the result of a (completely solvable) deficit in one's emotional management skill set."

[Re: food choices} "Because managing your behavior by an iron will - rather than autopilot - is a constant, energy-draining source of conflict and tension. You're in an undending arm wrestle between "Do It!" and "Don't do it!" The instant you're weakened, distracted, or slightly off your game, your resolve caves in the direction of whatever is the least painful, and most pleasurable in that moment."

"Hunger Directed Eating is not the Eat-When-You're-Hungry-and-Stop-When-You're-Full Diet. This completely undermines the effectiveness of these body-connecting habits by turning them into a diet with two rules--waiting until you're hungry and stopping when you're full. As we've seen, all sorts of things go (terribly) wrong when we introduce rules into our eating. Foremost, it leads directly to more overeating."

"If physical hunger isn't what launched your current eating episode, then how in the world is being satisfied going to be what signals you to stop? Hunger and fullness are like two bookends. If hunger is what starts you eating, then feeling satisfied would naturally be what makes it easy to stop. However, if feeling frustrated with a project at work is what initiated your eating, then what is your signal to stop? When the problem is solved? When the chips and salsa are gone? When you hear someone coming down the hall?"
Some people don't seem to feel deprived or restricted with IF but others do - it's not clear why and it seems that feelings towards fast days can change over time.

As far as I can tell, people tend to pick the bits of the book that work for them and ditch the parts that feel like they'd be onerous (such as her suggestion to check in with yourself after various food choices and meals and record your rating for hunger, mood, energy and concentration at various times ).

In the past year, I've seen a number of people on a different forum adopt Spinardi's advice in various food areas and they've mostly reported positive changes in their drive to binge or over-eat or they've regained such a sense of calm with food that they describe it as empowerment that they've never previously experienced.

I've no idea if any of the above might be helpful to you. I've seen several references to her videos on YouTube and they're well received. Good Luck. :clover:
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 08:48
This thread sums up why I so love being a part of this forum!

Thank you so much for the thought-provoking and educational posts @ssure & @scubachick. This is a subject that fascinates me....being as I am an emotional comfort eater.

Many thanks for starting this thread @fastingrunner - I will follow it with interest!

:rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow:
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 08:55
I empathise FR x thank you@SSure for that info..looks really useful...will have a good read of it later x
@chinchin i love that saying! X
Re: Controlling non-fast days
19 Sep 2014, 08:56
Wow thank you so much @SSure for that lengthy but oh so helpful post!

I think you've hit the nail on the head there @fastingrunner. Its not the fast days that are a problem (although I guess there are days that aren't as easy as others!) but its knowing what to eat on non-fast days isn't it. I guess if you're a runner then you need a few more calories than, say me (a sedentary snail). The main key is not to get hett up about it. The whole idea of fasting is that it takes away the kind of obsessiveness we have with food. I have just started doing 16:8 in between fasts. I'm copying Caroline @Carorees because I'm so inspired by her weight loss and this is the way she did it.

If you're not a breakfast person then maybe you could try 16:8ing in-between fasts.

One things for sure, you'll certainly get lots of help and advice on this ere forum! Good luck with it all and I look forward to hearing how you do.

Bean :smile:
Re: Controlling non-fast days
27 Sep 2014, 22:35
Been away so a belated thank you. Good to know this is not unusual xx
Re: Controlling non-fast days
28 Sep 2014, 08:17
There's a similar discussion happening at present, @Fastingrunner - I don't know if there might be additional ideas there (my contribution is the same)?

5-2-diet-chat-f6/eating-days-are-my-downfall-t13192.html

About hunger in particular:
5-2-diet-chat-f6/hunger-t13190.html
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