The FastDay Forum

Fatdog prodded my social/political nerve by referring to this in her thread.
Really it is important for everyone who inhabits this whole island, voters or not, as history saw much blood shed over this.
Personally I would hope the union holds as we all live here together but how do Scottish people feel about it? 'King' Alec shouts a loud case but is power blocking his vision?
The media screams will increase confusingly and Parliament may chase it's own tail down a hole.
Is the choice a real one?

I don't know enough about it all to be able to make a decision right now - I need some impartial information and that just isn't coming. the no's say the yes camp are lieing and vice versa, what will happen to the military contracts at the shipyards if there is a split? will jobs be lost? what will happen to the army if there is a split - will soldiers be forced to move armies? if jobs will be lost will other jobs be created because of the split?. Oil will run out at some point - is there enough to sustain us as a country etc etc - these are just a couple of questions off the top of my head. If I am not armed with enough realistic information at the time of voting I will stick with what I know.

Like many others who are not 'Scottish', either by birth or by residence, I don't have that emotional foot in one camp or another.
However, where Scotland leads, Wales may follow and then I would be firmly in the 'no' camp, as I don't think we have enough resources to sustain our economy independently.
Despite Wales being such a beautiful principality, there are some desperately poor areas and some very remote ones (given that we are a small area!!).

My one concern with the Scottish campagne is - how will it really be funded with the limited reserves of oil still left in the North sea - and if it doesn't work, will it drag the pound down, like some economies have ruined the Euro? I certainly couldn't see us reuniting again in our lifetimes, if it all went down the pan.

When Wales voted for an assembly, we had an appallingly low turnout, and the yes vote won. But actually, it was something like 10% (don't hold me to the exact number) of the population that wanted it; now we've got yet another layer of bureaucracy, another layer of money going into supporting it and another layer of politicians who spout off and make no difference.

Phew.. I'll shut up now.

As a born and bred Scot I think the whole idea is madness. Scotland was never a conquered nation, the union was a mutually agreed situation and if it is now to be broken up then I feel quite strongly that the whole of the U.K. should get a vote, not just the Scots. This is undemocratic, in my opinion. I cannot see what the upheaval, to say nothing of the expense, will give the Scots that they do not have already. I dislike the 'I hate England and the English' mindset of some Scots and was ashamed of Andy Murray when he voiced his "Anyone but England" comment.

Ballerina x

I don't know enough about it either and, as with so many of these things, how refreshing would it be for some impartial documentary to be aired on TV explaining it all and putting the case forward for both sides. I do, however, feel that if there's a vote then shouldn't the whole country be voting as it does indeed have impact on us all and, at present, Scotland is part of the UK/Great Britain. But as I say, I don't know enough about it

As I live in Scotland myself, I have my own views on Scottish Independence. However, I don't want to be too controversial on this forum as there are other forums out there which were created for that very purpose. However, the current United Kingdom as a whole is currently the second fattest nation behind the USA, and Scotland is currently the fattest nation within the UK.

That means that whether or not Scotland breaks away from the rest of the UK and becomes an independent country, we will still continue to be the second fattest nation behind America as things stand. It would therefore be interesting to see what the Government of any newly independent Scottish nation did about that as the UK Government down at Westminster clearly hasn't managed to do anything about that.

Ballerina, why were you "ashamed" of Andy Murray's comment? It was a joke to Tim Henman who had just been slagging him off about Scotland's inability to qualify for a tournament. A bit of banter between two good friends that was blown out of all proportion by the English media.

I think that a lot of that "Anybody But England" stuff comes from the fact that whenever England are playing against anybody at football (for those in other countries such as the USA, I am referring to the game of soccer), people on this side of the border will tend to support whoever is playing against them. That doesn't mean that we have anything against the English in general (indeed, I have had some very good friends over the years who are English).

What it really boils down to is the fact that whenever there is a major football event on TV such as the World Cup or the Euros, the English-biased media working for such organisations as the BBC who are covering these events will frequently harp on about a certain event in 1966 as though that only happened yesterday, and go on to continually make the England football team out to be better than they actually are, and the best thing since sliced bread.

Then when England lose, it is as though it were the end of the the world and the reason why Scottish football fans want England to be beaten is because they enjoy seeing the faces of those greetin' commentators afterwards. Indeed, this has recently been a good period in that regard as England have lost a couple of friendly matches whilst Scotland have been doing quite well.

I think that if it wasn't for that attitude of the media that I have just described, I would probably only be too happy to support our nearest neighbours in those matches since they are after all, another British team.

Many thanks for all your responses. This could be the only impartial forum on the web.
If anyone finds any links to something resembling good information about all this please share it with us.

[wildmissus]

The school that my girls go to had a referendum last week. Approx 750 pupils, S1 - S6 Academy kids. There was 64% turnout - 78% voted no, 21% voted yes (a few spoiled votes).

I have lived in a few places including Perth, Glasgow and now in the Highlands. I also lived in Jersey for a couple of years - 'It is part of the British Isles but not part of the United Kingdom. It governs its own internal affairs and raises its own taxes, but the UK is responsible for the island’s defence, overseas representation and international affairs.'

I am as Scottish as they come and proud of it (as many Scottish people are). My husband is English and my bestest friend in the whole wide world is English. There has always been a lot of rivalry/camaraderie between the English and Scottish - we are better than you kind of thing and yes a lot of people do take it quite seriously. I think splitting Britain up would formalise that attitude. My girls and I do however have huge fun at home winding my husband up telling him that he will have to bu**er off back to his own country and apply for a visa to get back here.

I feel that as time passes the more confused I am about the whole thing. The media have certainly a lot to do with that. You would think that you couldn't come to a more Scottish part of the country that where I live but not so. We have/had two RAF bases close by which is why so many English people have settled here and also going further back in time when we were a fishing town, the fishing boats would travel to the north of England on a regular basis.

Just by listening to general chit chat I would say that the majority will vote no and that many people are already scunnered (fed up) with it all.

Time will tell.

The school that my girls go to had a referendum last week. Approx 750 pupils, S1 - S6 Academy kids. There was 64% turnout - 78% voted no, 21% voted yes (a few spoiled votes).

I have lived in a few places including Perth, Glasgow and now in the Highlands. I also lived in Jersey for a couple of years - 'It is part of the British Isles but not part of the United Kingdom. It governs its own internal affairs and raises its own taxes, but the UK is responsible for the island’s defence, overseas representation and international affairs.'

I am as Scottish as they come and proud of it (as many Scottish people are). My husband is English and my bestest friend in the whole wide world is English. There has always been a lot of rivalry/camaraderie between the English and Scottish - we are better than you kind of thing and yes a lot of people do take it quite seriously. I think splitting Britain up would formalise that attitude. My girls and I do however have huge fun at home winding my husband up telling him that he will have to bu**er off back to his own country and apply for a visa to get back here.



I feel that as time passes the more confused I am about the whole thing. The media have certainly a lot to do with that. You would think that you couldn't come to a more Scottish part of the country that where I live but not so. We have/had two RAF bases close by which is why so many English people have settled here and also going further back in time when we were a fishing town, the fishing boats would travel to the north of England on a regular basis.

Just by listening to general chit chat I would say that the majority will vote no and that many people are already scunnered (fed up) with it all.

Time will tell.

Very helpful wildmissus. Based on your post (which is the first thing I have read that makes any sense over any politician,) I vote NO.

I know that I said that I didn't want to be controversial on this thread but as someone who has always dreamt about living in an independent, Scottish Socialist Republic with an elected Head of State replacing the present Queen, it looks as though I'm in a minority on this one.

[Debs]

I think you may be John!!
I am English and am well aware of the history behind the original Union, it was manipulated like every vote is. The reality is, that neither country will do as well separate than they will together. I understand that there would be problems with the EU as Scotland would have to apply to join, there would be problems with the currency, a sterling zone or would Scotland adopt the Euro? I am sure a lot of Scots would be against that option. Defence, security, national debt, all would have to be debated and agreed; it isn't as easy as Alex Salmond would like to think. England would play hardball on everything.
It is odd, living in Australia I get far more independent and nuanced commentary on the issue than I would get living in England, or Scotland.
As it is currently, Scotland has a better deal for their people in many facets of life, would that change dramatically with independence? Probably. Increased taxes to deal with its own problems, obesity amongst them.
I watch with interest from the sidelines!

I know that I said that I didn't want to be controversial on this thread but as someone who has always dreamt about living in an independent, Scottish Socialist Republic with an elected Head of State replacing the present Queen, it looks as though I'm in a minority on this one.

Definitely not alone - I pretty much share your dream too! I'm actively involved , and getting 'activer'.

I feel the 5:2 forum is a refuge for food and weight-loss and, although I'd love to get stuck in and trash some of the myths that are bound to emerge on this thread, I sincerely don't want to contaminate this space with my staunch (and *well* informed) support for independence.

So, I'll haud ma wheesht, with a final plea to you not to take the word of the main stream media (Aunty Beeb in particular) but seek alternative (international, perferably non-USian/UKian sycophantic - there are *major* vested interests involved) sources for balance!

[wildmissus]

John, you are definitely not alone. It doesn't seem that long ago that the SNP were a very small party who were often ignored or laughed at but now they are in power an have done a lot for us - free prescriptions, council tax freezes, to name a couple. I just wish the general public could have some hard facts rather than having to listen to people squabbling on TV.