The FastDay Forum

I think it's the difference between allergic and not allergic people. Allergic ones have prednisolone as their God, LOL!!!

[carorees]

Oh I certainly agree that there is over prescribing but there is too much of the "it's natural so it must be safe" thinking and people self-medicating with herbal medicines made by companies that don't have to worry about side effects or unsubstantiated claims because their products are not regulated.

Oh I certainly agree that there is over prescribing but there is too much of the "it's natural so it must be safe" thinking and people self-medicating with herbal medicines made by companies that don't have to worry about side effects or unsubstantiated claims because their products are not regulated.

I think that may depend on what country you are in. In Australia we have the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) they do not allow unsubstantiated claims and they have a process where anyone (not just Doctors or Naturopaths etc) can submit information on side effects of medicine (both natural and pharmaceuticals).

In Australia we have Registered medicines i.e. all prescription medicine, most over the counter and some complementary. Registered medicines are assessed by the TGA for quality, safety and efficacy.

We also have Listed medicines i.e. some over the counter medicine and most complementary medicines. Listed medicine are assessed by the TGA for quality and safety.

Basically higher risk medicines the most obvious example being medical drugs must be registered as the risk of some problem occurring while taking the drug is higher than taking some vitamins that are readily available to all in a health food store i.e. no prescription required. So the Listed medicines are readily available and that is because they are generally recognised as being safe.

Having said that many people in Australia will buy supplements etc (usually online) as they are not given the ok to be sold here or the dosage available here is too low for their intended use. You are usually free to bring in small quantities (enough for personal use) provided it is not an illegal drug.

So from an Australian point of view we can think along the lines of if it is Listed (not Registered) as most complementary medicines are it probably is safe unless you are say allergic to it.

I hope that sheds some light on how supplements and drug are viewed in other parts of the world. I don't know how/if things are registered in other parts of the world or how often bad things happen to people who just walk into a health food store and buy something off the shelf but here such problems happen very rarely thanks to our medicine classifications and monitoring done by the TGA.

I think that may depend on what country you are in. In Australia we have the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) they do not allow unsubstantiated claims and they have a process where anyone (not just Doctors or Naturopaths etc) can submit information on side effects of medicine (both natural and pharmaceuticals).

TGA & oz. regulation isn't all that great... Suggest you watch this clip from 'The Checkout' about complementary medicine regulation in oz by the TGA. Deals with a weight loss product so might be of general interest here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH8GwjLZ ... t&index=14

Excellent article which made me think, having just spent 3 1/4 years on prednisone, a steroid which has either 82 or 92 side effects, can't remember which. hey, one of the side effects is memory loss!
Then more medication to cope with the side effects, then more medication to cope with the side effects of that medication - and so on, ad infinitum.
So I'm pretty fed up with "chemicals". BUT, a big BUT, I would have spent some years in bed without the prednisone.

Made me remember the all organic restaurant that said it couldn't guarantee its water was organic!

Glad to hear you're doing better!

Sometimes it is a matter of perspective and/or comparison.
Seeing all the meds I have to take and comparing them to prednisolone, I'd take prednisolone any day...
But I agree that we take too many "natural" medication because we thing it is not chemicals. Hopefully, they are better than the chemicals we find in the labs...

I think that may depend on what country you are in. In Australia we have the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) they do not allow unsubstantiated claims and they have a process where anyone (not just Doctors or Naturopaths etc) can submit information on side effects of medicine (both natural and pharmaceuticals).

TGA & oz. regulation isn't all that great... Suggest you watch this clip from 'The Checkout' about complementary medicine regulation in oz by the TGA. Deals with a weight loss product so might be of general interest here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH8GwjLZ ... t&index=14

Thanks for sharing that you tube clip.

I have to ask though how often do you hear of someone dying from supplements?

I am guessing not often.

The Checkout seemed to be out on the warpath attacking natural therapies and the TGA.

As an aside... if you ask some natural therapists about suppressing the appetite they will talk out against those kinds of supplements as suppressing the appetite is generally frowned upon. Except in a few rare circumstances suppressing the appetite is not done (by practitioners). Just think about it, when do you naturally have no appetite? Usually when you are sick. Why would anyone want to suppress their appetite and simulate (to the body) a symptom of feeling sick? It does not make sense.

Now the appetite suppressants mentioned in the program would be Listed medicines and as mentioned in the program they do not have to prove efficacy.

As for the research that was done on only fifty people I have not read the paper so I don't know the quality of the research. If you one is worried about the small numbers (i.e. only 50) then you need to read more research papers... The original piece of research done on thyroid extract was done on ONE person. Yes one. Now before you jump up and down saying oh but it has been researched further since then, yes that may be true. However, it does not change the fact that the original research done which suggested that this may be a product worth looking into was done one *one* person.

The TGA is not perfect but you have to admit that in Australia we don't have people dying in the street because they took some Echinacea or some Vitamin C.

Now we look to the government. Seeing as that little piece on "The Checkout" was pointing fingers at those at the top. Dr Jensen asked the Minister representing the Assistant Treasurer, in writing, on 19 November 2009:


In respect of the media report ‘Hospital botches kill 4500’ by Mr Mark Metherell (The Age, 27 July 2009): are these deaths included in the Australian Bureau of Statistics reports on iatrogenic fatalities; if not, why not and where are they reported.


Mr Swan (Treasurer) —The Assistant Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable member's question:

For deaths registered in Australia in 2007, there were 4,015 mentions of conditions on death certificates which are listed in 'Complications of medical and surgical care (Y40-Y84)', and 246 deaths which had an underlying cause of death within this codeblock. These statistics were released in March 2009.

This information can be found at http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansardr%2F2010-02-03%2F0216;query=Id%3Achamber%2Fhansardr%2F2010-02-03%2F0000 so you don't think I am making it up

So in summing up, if you like natural therapies in Australia you are relatively safe using the supplements that are available locally, providing you don't take go e.g. something you are allergic to. Prescribed medicines generally are more dangerous and that is why you can't just walk up to a shop and buy medical drugs without a prescription.

The TGA is not perfect (name one government department that is) but we seem to have far less problems here than what is inferred to in previous posts in this thread.

I am not forcing natural remedies on anyone, if they help some people great, if they don't help then look to something that does. Alternatively medical drugs have saved many, many lives over the years but they are also more likely to kill people, again I am not forcing anyone to take medical drugs I am just making a point.

You can fall into a ditch on either side of the road. No system is perfect, work with what helps you and remember what helps one may not help another.

Peace.

The TGA is not perfect but you have to admit that in Australia we don't have people dying in the street because they took some Echinacea or some Vitamin C.

& the incredible amounts of money spent on pills & potions when people succumb to the marketing hype?

I watched my mother die after she refused conventional treatment & went the alternate cancer therapy path. I'm v. skeptical of everything (conventional or alternate) as a result. All I know is anyone who says they have all the answers & a definitive cure is probably selling something for their benefit not yours.

Enuff said - here's a good read if you can find a copy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick_or_Treatment

Back to the 5:2ing.

That must have been dreadful for you Badalya! Lots of sympathy.
I guess people get pretty desperate with cancer as conventional medicine hasn't all the cures, so they will try almost anything.

Coming back to my years with steroids, it has made me feel more and more strongly that I need to concentrate on as healthy a life style as possible, regardless of conventional or alternative treatments. And that's probably what we all have in common on this forum - by looking at our eating habits.