The FastDay Forum

I used to be a weekly Sunday mass lass for going on 12 years, but have not been in 2 years. I am struggling personally in my faith and just not dealing with it.

There was way too much silence in my prayers and not from my side. With the world the way it is and seeing dying hungry children on the television. I asked myself where is this God?

I am not asking for help with me, but rather as a new granny I have been asked by grand daughters, mother; my opinion in getting Lara baptised.

I have drawn a massive blank.

Really need a supportive and respectful answer for her right now. I told her I didn't want to give a quick answer. but I would get back to this tonight.

Sorry am right on the pump about this. Don't like the pressure either, but anyway, will do what i can hopefully without getting foot in mouth disease in the process.

People baptise for all kind of reasons especially when they dont even follow the religion they are getting their child baptised under. Not being judgemental, just been observing, but saying my thoughts aloud.

No need for debates on whether there is a god or not, I know where I feel right now, just need to give an opinion whether my grandchild getting baptised is good or what? Oh dear

She does want my opinion. I need to give it without getting my own emotions involved.

Asking for your opinion is terrific, mine all made their own non-baptising decision but with the proviso that the child could get baptised if they wanted to in self-deciding years to come, as I did with my children.
I have one son who did and still follows Christianity, another who didn't as he's not concerned about it.
Follow your heart perhaps? {{{+}}}

Firstly... Congratulations Zamale, I am a new grandmother too, it's wonderful!
I know little about mass, but am assuming this is Catholic, so forgive me if this reply doesn't help.
I think that the first part of your post is exactly what you should say. ie that your doubts make you feel a lack of certainty about it. If your grandchild is going to be brought up in a faith, then surely baptism (or equivalent in other faiths) is an expression of that intent by the parents. If the baby won't be part of the religious community because the immediate family aren't, then he/she can choose at a later date.
It's a bit of a minefield for you. Best wishes.

[Debs]

Let her make her own mind up when she's old enough.

I am assuming that your daughter, or is it daughter-in-law, is the one asking your opinion. It is always tricky when dealing with other people's children but you owe it to her to give her YOUR honest answer. If baptism is an important thing to her parents then the baby should be baptised, to believers it is important and to non believers it is merely a social convention but either way it is not physically harmful. I really feel that this is a decision which only the parents can, and should, make but then this is not about my beliefs but about theirs. I hope this is happily resolved without any distress to anyone because babies only need to be loved as much as this little one clearly is and as others have said, she can always choose this path for herself when she is older. Good luck and please let us know what the outcome is.

Ballerina x

Congratulations on being a granny!

I was born and raised in a very devout Christian household (protestant/Baptist/evangelical). I was not baptised as a baby because my parents felt it was a decision only I could make. I had wanted to be baptised as a baby (it felt more 'normal') but in the end I was glad I wasn't. I was baptised as an adult when I was 20, and it was an amazing experience as I knew it was a decision I had come to through my own faith journey. I am also going through struggles in my faith at the moment - sometimes it feels like wading through treacle!

Being baptised will not make anyone a Christian in itself (my husband was baptised as a baby and he hates church and pretty much everything about it!) - it is a merely symbolic act. I have seen babies being both baptised and 'dedicated' (as I was) and in our church of England church the only difference is some water gets splashed about in the baptisms (some of it occasionally ends up on the babies' heads if they don't wriggle too much!!). I guess the sticking point if you are either a non-believer or are struggling in your faith/sceptical, is the point at which the family promises to bring the child up in the Christian faith. You can always have a secular naming ceremony if you felt it would be hypocritical to have a Christian ceremony. It should be about celebrating new life and the little community around this new life that make promises to be there for her, to look after her and to be an anchor for her as she grows older.

It's great that you have been asked for your opinion - like you said it's often something that's done without much thought to what it involves. Perhaps Lara's parents could meet with a local minister to chat about it. In the long run, like Ballerina so beautifully put it, the ceremony itself it's important but not crucial, and the main thing is that your granddaughter is being raised in a loving family who care about her future.

Anyway, sorry to waffle. I always try to keep my answers brief on here but it never turns out that way!

What a difficult position your family has put you in, @Zamale!

I lost my faith and belief in the evangelical chapel I had attended since childhood, in my late teens and when I had my children a few years later I felt that it would be totally hypocritical to have them baptised in a Church of England Church. I thought that this was something that they should do later in life when, and if, they decided to.

The only problem that this has caused them is when they have been asked to be godparents. The C of E seem to expect godparents to have been christened and my daughter wasn't allowed to be godmother to her best friends little girl. My son, however, wasn't asked the question and was allowed to be a godfather in another parish. Apart from that there have been no repercussions from my decision (I did consult with my husband but basically he left it up to me!)

If I were you, I would explain that you thanked them for including you in the decision-making process but that you felt that it should be their decision and, unless you have a very strong belief one way or the other, just refuse to express an opinion.

I wish you well in deciding what to do. There have been some very considered responses already to your question and I hope that you arrive at a decision with which you can be comfortable.

I gave all my children the option to be baptised when they were old enough to make an informed decision themselves. They have all declined.

For me it wasn't my right to induct them into a religion, which they may or may not follow themselves when older.

[carorees]

Some very thoughtful replies there.

It occurred to me, however, to wonder why Lara's mother is asking for your advice? I wondered if it was possible that she wanted your support in backing up her own feelings on the matter? Or that she thinks her opinions will be at odds with yours and is concerned about your reaction? Just a thought...

Some great replies here. I'm one who believes it is the parents decision. Dont stress Zamale, it's nice you have been asked you opinion.

It's a difficult one - I think it depends on the environment the child is going to be brought up in - if they are going to be taken to church regularly and will be viewed as "different" for not being baptised I would go ahead and do it. On the other hand, if this is not the case, I would leave it for them to choose when they are old enough to understand, when it will be meaningful for them.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer but most of all - enjoy being a Granma!

One thing...if the parents want Lara to go to a church school,they need to have been baptised/ christened into that particular faith ( in uk anyway) x
Some great and thoughtful answers..i think i resonate mostly with ( from@stowgateresident)....
"If I were you, I would explain that you thanked them for including you in the decision-making process but that you felt that it should be their decision and, unless you have a very strong belief one way or the other, just refuse to express an opinion. "
Lovely that youve been consulted ..Nanna's opinion is obviously important xx!

@CandiceMarie the church school thing isn't a problem here. Most church schools are happy to take anyone who will pay their fees Going to church isn't a problem. I was baptized Anglican but am godparent to my niece who baptized catholic.

It's good that they've asked your opinion, this is my view xxx
I was brought up CE & as such was baptised as a baby & went on to have my daughter baptised in CE too. However since then we've become part if a Baptist church where babies are dedicated & people are baptised when they can make their own decision.
If I'd known about dedication I'd have chosen that for my daughter, I was baptised again soon after returning to faith by submersion.

Thankyou for all thoughtful replies. I just asked them what the intention was for getting grand baby baptised, was it specific to getting into, exclusive school later. ( some people do this ) I mentioned the church may ask for a weekly attendance for some time before the baptism and ideally would like it a bit more than that, but dont deny baptism as far as I know even if they never go back.

I told them what I know, but not what to do.
I've learnt the boundaries of family from my mother and if I want my children in my life, I won't enforce my opinions as the right way. I dont even know what the right way is, honestly.

My sons partner has always asked what I have thought, she will do what she decides anyway and has, but has wanted my thoughts on a few things. We get on well.

I told her when little children are not baptised and do want to be, they are considered baptised by desire, as was told to me by a nun.
My son is set on it , but won't elaborate as he is one of them men that can't express the feeling until they have had a beer or 2.
I think there may be a baptism in the near future.

Thanks for weighing in, pardon the pun