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General 5:2 and Fasting Chat

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60g carbs per day and the website dietdoctor.com -- whaddya think of that, @Carorees?

Oh, and hiit workouts as well.

allllllll of my least favorite things. Sigh. I mean I know he's right. Deep down, I really know he's right.

When he started talking about breakfast, I said "I usually just have a double espresso with a tablespoon of cream" and his response was "perfect." I said that I had done intermittent fasting and aimed to go 12-16 hours per day fasting and he said that was great, "a person can easily go a day without food as long as they are drinking water."

But then he also said weight loss won't be fast at my age and that if I can have a goal of 10 pounds per year, he thinks that's ideal.

Well if I actually stick to the low carb, I'll probably lose far more than that in a year. The question is will I? Would I rather have that bit of bread/chocolate/sweets and stay obese or would I rather be healthier? So far, the answer has been "well, just a bit more ice cream, please" sigh.

He tripled my thyroid medication, so that should help. I guess I need to think about this, and maybe even do something.
It can be difficult to get started can't it Tracie? The 'treats' are so tempting and such a big change is daunting - so why not try a few smaller changes to begin with? Maybe just one change every couple of weeks, to let the habits start to take hold? Could you forego the cream in that first espresso and stick to a feeding window, so that breakfast espresso doesn't break the fast?

I feel like a total hypocrite here as I'm bigger than ever and struggling to make any changes to improve things myself (but hoping for a diagnosis next month, and then a way forward).

you can do it chick, if you really want to xx
Hi Tracie,

I'm working on doing lower carbs. Under 100. I plan to use most of the carbs I do eat on fruit though. I am not a big veggie person, so I feel like fruits are important in my diet. But I'm even trying to switch to the lower carb fruits. I just went to the grocery store and stocked up. My plan is to have 2 scrambled eggs with ham and cheese for lunch every day. I had it today and it was good. I think you can try to gradually cut things out. I told myself that I would still indulge once a week on ice cream or whatever, but it better be good! It's amazing just how ingrained things are in our brains. We think a meal should have a carb. Even when I made my eggs today, I thought "a piece of toast would be nice with that."

I have a friend though that is doing the ketosis thing. She is losing weight like crazy and feels great and says she doesn't crave anything anymore. So maybe that approach is the way to go.

Anyway, it's good to have some suggestions. I have to say, at this point I would be happy to lose even 10 lbs. this year!!!

I will say though that just like with a diet, the only exercise that's going to work for you is one you enjoy and can stick with. So I think walking is better than no exercise at all. Maybe you can try doing some intervals of speed walking or jogging?

Good luck and definitely stick around so we can share tips and/or commiserate together!
Thanks guys!

The doctor actually thought espresso and cream was great in the morning, so no need to change anything there.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing - small changes. I'm wondering if there's a point where reducing carbs isn't helpful enough? Is there a magic point where eating fewer than X carbs is magic weight loss/hunger banishment and over that number, you might as well have ice cream six times a day? Or is any reduction a good, reduction, a healthy reduction and a noble reduction? ;-) How many carbs kick you out of ketosis?

So tonight, we're still having the burgers the boys requested. Instead of tater tots, chips or crisps, Bruce and I are having sauteed cabbage. The only other carbs I've had today, other than the burger bun, is two rolls of sushi from a place that seriously uses very, very little rice in their sushi.

And yet, looks like my day is coming in at 92 carbs :-( Boy, I thought it was all pretty meagre. But one california roll clocks in at 38 carbs. I bet it's in part the fake crab, because other sushi rolls have far fewer.

sigh.
Hi Tracie @Tracieknits, good to see you back (again!). :smile: :smile: :smile: I can certainly understand how you would not feel very delighted with the suggested changes to your diet and exercise regime. Maybe having a doctor say you need to make xx changes will help you stick to them??

I agree with Moogie about making small changes (good to see you active on the forum again @Moogie!). Are there some carbs that you are willing (and able) to give up, at least in the short to medium term?

I do think cutting out / reducing considerably your intake of white rice and pasta could be a priority (as well as almost everything with added sugar of course) and probably bread too. And stick to just 1-2 serves of low sugar fruit. But I do think including some grains, such as quinoa, is important, unless your doctor has said no to these. And maybe also a small amount of starchy veg. Although I understand that there is clear evidence that low carb does help weight loss, a lower weight is not the only important aspect to your health and wellbeing. Good nutrition, from a wide range of whole foods, is also important.

What does your doctor count as carbs? Ie, do you have to count the carbs in low starch veg or can these be excluded? As you know, I am not a fan of low carb, but if that is what you need to do for your health, then I guess you will give that more of a go.

As for exercise, as cblasz says, I think you have to find something that you enjoy. HIIT may be optimal, but it is not for everyone. I did try it for a while initially, when Dr MM first proposed it, but I hated it, so only stuck with it for a short while. Of course, there are lots of versions to HIIT, so if you look around you might find one that appeals, and starts fairly gently. At my over 50's exercise class we have done the tabata version, though the HI part is not very HI in my opinion! For example, we just step on and off a block, raising our hands above our heads as we step up, lowering as we step down. Sometimes we skip - more intense - or run very fast on the spot - that is reasonably intense. You can pick anything for the exercise that gets your heart rate up. It is hard to get your heart rate up with just walking, unfortunately, unless you climb stairs!!

As you well know, we are here to help and support each other.

Good luck and very best wishes, as always. :clover: :clover:
I've read a lot about cutting out carbs. To be in ketosis you have to have less than 20 g I believe and the littlest bit over can kick you out. But just reducing carbs at all, will help.

92 is not bad at all. Did you also consider the fiber you had? There's different theories about it, but I do subtract the fiber to get my net carbs. I believe that the average person eats around 300g of carbs a day!! I am wondering though, did you consider not having the bun with your burger?

This webpage might help: https://authoritynutrition.com/how-many ... se-weight/

Here's some of the information from it. (I've seen the same information other places) Based on this I've chosen to try to stick to under 100g most days, and occasionally a little lower. I track my carbs in MFP, so I can see where my real issues are with regard to carbs and make adjustments.

"100-150 Grams Per Day
This is more of a “moderate” carbohydrate intake. It is very appropriate for people who are lean, active and simply trying to stay healthy and maintain their weight.
It is very possible to lose weight at this (and any) carb intake, but it may require you to count calories and/or control portions.

50-100 Grams Per Day
This range is great if you want to lose weight effortlessly while allowing for a bit of carbs in the diet. It is also a great maintenance range for people who are carb sensitive.

20-50 Grams Per Day
This is where the metabolic benefits really start to kick in. This is the perfect range for people who need to lose weight fast, or are metabolically deranged and have obesity or diabetes."

I also bought this book, which I found somewhat helpful.
https://www.amazon.com/Low-Carb-Dieting ... 0764525662

I might look for a low carb recipe book to help with my evening meals!

Keep us posted on your progress!
Thanks @Sassy1 and @CBlasz

well I do have a great deal of information on the subject. I know it's been preached a lot on this forum. I don't think they're wrong, it's just not the sermon I want to hear ;-)

Yesterday was 92g carbs net after deducting fiber. yes, my doctor said to count the carbs in vegetables and 6g of those carbs were just cabbage! I didn't realize sauteed cabbage would have so many carbs or I might not have chosen it. Although it was delicious.

I already had been aiming for the 100 to 150g carbs/day window, and already had been making the changes one is supposed to make when reducing that much. This particular endocrinologist is new to the practice, as the last endocrinologist I had seriously quit to move to Idaho (and sent all of his patients a really bizarre right-wing whackado letter about it). Under the last endocrinologist, I had been told to aim for about 125g carbs per day. So I have spent the last few years reducing carbs to that area (and it's shocking but that's a massive reduction from what I had been consuming when I was 273lbs -- I'm thinking I was easily eating 300g carbs/day back then!!). So for all of last year, when I lost over 35 pounds, I was aiming for 125g carbs/day. And when I stopped carefully watching the carbs and counting the points, 15lbs came back effortlessly (well I did have a lot of stress too, with mom in the hospital).

So I have the tools and knowledge to reduce it further than 125g. Just not the will. Yet. it doesn't feel nutritionally sound to cut things out like lentils and black beans. It doesn't feel nutritionally sound to count the carbs in things like fresh cabbage, zucchini and broccoli. I rather feel like the vegetables Weight Watchers counts as free should be free -- aren't they the healthiest things we can eat? WW makes us count portions for things like black beans, corn, peas, potatoes, sweet potatoes and other starchy veg, so I am in the habit of counting those already. But I don't feel I should have to count the carbs in lettuce. And when I have dramatically counted the carbs in things like leafy green veg, I end up with bad constipation and feeling very very ill. I've done truly low carb and been utterly miserable in pretty much every way.

Thankfully, I'm not a big fan of fruit, with the exception of fresh berries, fresh figs and the occasional banana or pineapple. I understand that bananas are the devil and I have not trouble not buying those. Pineapples are expensive and unreliable, so I can cut those out as well. My doctor did say a handful of fresh berries a day is a good thing.

The site he recommended called 1 glass of red wine 2 carbs. I think we could all argue that may or may not be an appropriate way to count wine, but I'm not going to say a dang word about that and I'm going to enjoy my two or three nights of wine, calling each glass 2 points. (two nights a week, Bruce and I share a bottle of wine. sometimes on a third night I will have a single split (187ml) to myself)

but I kept the carbs to 92g net yesterday, and today I was 1.9lbs lighter than the day before. Sigh. Not the feedback I really wanted.

Oh well, onward and downward. I'm headed to my physical therapy appointment for my knee. I haven't decided if it's a fast day or a low carb day. we will see how the day shakes out.
Hi Tracie - I don't think 6 carbs in cabbage is a lot! It's certainly a lot less than tater tots would've been. And it was probably the burger bun that was really the culprit, not the cabbage!!!!

Just like everything else you have to figure out what makes sense for you. The book I have doesn't think you should cut out carbs entirely and that fruits, etc. are good to have in your diet.
It's all relative, right? If I were to consider the 20g ketogenic version of low carb, then that 2 cups of cabbage is beyond the pale. Sure, 6 g wasn't nearly as much as the bun (I called that 31g because it was a kaiser roll), but it was about 1000 times healthier for me. I can even manage 6g of cabbage on 60g days. It just seems so wrong after over a year on weight watchers where green veg like that are free.

really I think I'm just whining because I'm a brain addled carb addict who wants their hit of the good stuff ;-)
Cabbage is actually listed as a good low carb food! It said it's 5g per 1 cup, I think with 2 or 3 grams of fiber, so it's really nothing!! If you were on the 20g diet, then you definitely wouldn't have had the bun or probably the sushi and the cabbage would've been fine!!!

What are you using to calculate the carbs? MyFitnessPal is great for keeping track!
I certainly wouldn't stop eating the cabbage! I eat a lot of cabbage and have recently introduced sauerkraut to my diet as I understand that pickled products are good for our intestinal biochemistry.

I also wouldn't count the veg that WW doesn't count. A wide range of veggies is very beneficial to good nutrition and good health (cblasz, such a pity you can't find a way to enjoy veg).

As I have said above, very low carb may help accelerate weight loss, but weight is not the only important factor in health and wellbeing, You have to do what is sustainable for you. What are ALL the carbs you like to eat, and which are feasible for you to only eat occasionally?
I do eat some veggies, just not very many. I am going to have broccoli and cheese with my dinner tonight and a sweet potato. I also like eggplant, corn, green beans, squash, but I don't really make them that often. I do like hot peppers! I will have salad (although I don't put a ton of veggies in it either - spinach/romaine, onions, cucumbers.) But really it's not a big problem for me. I'm fine with having some fruit instead.
Thanks guys! Really, I'm just whining and panicking a bit. I thought getting to 125g per day was hard enough!!

I love veg. I can easily load up a plate with veggies and just add some protein. One of my go-to fast day dinners is a full pound bag of frozen broccoli (~450g?) that I will toss with a bit of olive oil, garlic salt, black pepper and crushed red pepper and roast in the oven for 20 minutes or so with a nice piece of seasoned fish. Weight watchers only makes you count the oil. This diet only makes you count the broccoli LOL

I just ate an enormous salad with a grilled chicken breast, some feta cheese, 7 olives, pepperoncini (the pickled peppers) and 21 carefully weighed grams of whole wheat croutons lol

the croutons were my favorite part of the salad. Sigh.

I love carbs. You name them, any of them. I love grains, rice, starchy veg, sugar, chocolate, sweet drinks and so on. White rice, brown rice, red rice, black rice, it's all delicious!

But yes, I'm really just whining. I know how to do this. I did it today -- only consumed 28 net carbs so far, with dinner done and dusted. I'm going for a walk soon and then I'll let myself have a lovely, 2g glass of dry prosecco as a treat. 30g carbs. I will likely splurge on a dessert of whole milk yogurt and cherries later tonight.
Hi @tracieknits
I hope the extra meds help!
Well done on today keeping the carbs right down! :victory:
You'll find that it gets easier and easier to do this..i no longer want bread or biccies and i never ever thought it wd happen that i wd drop them completely..but the Carb Monster has gone and wont be allowed back,thanks to Nutty,who got me into low carb eating in the first place.
This time last year,I felt just like you describe here and on the solstice challenge thread..
could i do it? No..not really..but wd give it a week ( and felt heartily depressed after deciding that!)
Almost 100 lbs down in weight now,its my anniversary on 13 July. It hasnt been anywhere near as hard as i feared. Weight loss has slowed down but thats ok coz the initial large losses really encourage you to keep going.

Full fat greek yog is delicious,hope you enjoyed having some tonight. And nuts go lovely with it as well as berries. :like: :like: :like:
Want to read the other replies but need to go to bed so will be back to read more xxx
Just realised I had not read all the recent posts on this so caught up with them just now,

@Candicemarie, you are amazing with how you have been able to reduce your carbs so much AND be happy with it AND not miss them - just curious about what carbs you do eat - do you ever have any whole grains or starchy veg? I assume you used to love (all?) carbs, like Tracie??

Tracie, I have wondered whether going "cold turkey" on all sugary carbs and "white" foods is the only way (with time) to overcome desire for these foods. (As I have mentioned many times, I believe that there is a place for whole grains and starchy veg in one's diet, unless a health professional who you trust says otherwise.) But whether one is prepared / able to do that is another question. But given your situation and the doctor's advice, it does seem worth doing so. And you have made a good start!

(I like the sound of that broccoli dish, I must give that a go. :smile: And I have a similar salad to you for lunch, generally fish rather than chicken, and quinoa rather than croutons, and add in some walnuts and a few sultanas. The latter are my fave part!)

We will be with you on your journey! Good luck and best wishes. :clover: :smile:

PS @cblasz good to hear that you do like some veg!! And yes, I know I am a broken record and a bit of a pain on this, but fruit is not really a substitute for veg due to it having a much higher sugar content. Such a pity of course! I used to have A LOT of fruit but a reduction in how much fruit I have is one permanent change I have made to my diet. I still usually have more than the 2 recommended serves a day, especially in summer... All those lovely stone fruits...
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