The FastDay Forum

I suffer terribly with insomnia. I'm up now (3:35am) and have been up for ages. I fall asleep as my head touches the pillow of an evening but wake up about two hours later then I'm awake most of the night before getting another two hours in aboout dawn. I'm so exhausted that some days I'm scared I'll pass out. It's nothing to do with 5:2 but it has troubled me for years now.

I often find that my insomnia is either:
- prior to a weight loss (e.g. poor sleep at night --> weight loss in the morning!) , so I am tired but hapy
- if I don't have enoughs carbs: a carby dinner = sleep like a LOG.

What a great place this is! My commiserations to fellow sufferers and thanks to all for the good ideas.

I had read about mindfulness here before but, er, forgot about it. That's how mindful I am! (It might at least have popped into my head at 4am one morning but no such luck...) So will check that out, including the book/CD that Marlene recommends, and the Sleepio course. I would prefer to keep off the meds especially as I don't think my problem is a short-term one.

In my case I think it is 'low level stress' rather than that life is all too much. Also could do with more effective blackout curtains perhaps. And it would help if our cats didn't start maiowing too early (especially when they have sensed I am awake). And I know they should be shut up downstairs but if it came to a choice between cats and husband I think I might be looking for a new home...

I have spent the last 18 months with 'fall-asleep-wake-in-middle-of-night insomnia. Now I take magnesium orotate 2-4 a night andi sleep like a baby - I buy it thru iherb.com (USA) an buy nutrient carriers - find it better than what we get here.http://www.iherb.com/Nutrient-Carriers- ... lets/37366

surprised no-one's mentioned it, but maybe because it seems too obvious - more exercise! not going to the gym for hours stuff, but just something that makes you want a sit-down at the end of it - digging the garden, cleaning the house, a few hours round the shops. Having swapped a desk-bound job for a more active self-employed life I definitely suffer less from bad sleep (but the reduced stress is also a factor). Not the most practical solution, but spending the winter skiing works wonders for me!!!

Now I take magnesium orotate 2-4 a night and sleep like a baby

I remember 'milk of magnesia' from my childhood, but not sure what it was for. This is the second time in this topic that magnesium has been mentioned. Maybe worth a try. Is it safe? Views from any nerds - or anyone else?

dominic - can't help with the problem - but can only say that I love my cats nearly as much as my husband (or at least I have the "love me, love my cat" attitude too). However - having had a lot of sleepless nights last year after a hip replacement I can only sympathise with your insomnia. If my hubbie needed the cats out then I'd compromise - if nothing else to try it for a week and see if it helped. Go on ......... ask her........ she may surprise you If it did help then you'd have to start the negotiation process

[Betsysgr8]

If lack of magnesium is the problem, it can also be remedied with a an epsom salt bath. Nice warm bath before bed might help. I used to take epsom baths frequently when I had a really strenous day in the garden and it would help prevent achy muscles. Slept really well too.

Contrary to advice I find I go back to sleep if I do look at the clock! I used to do 24 hour shifts and have never regained a good sleeping pattern. I find that whatever I do I wake up at 2.30 - 3.00 am every morning. I use the time to go over plans for the day and quite often have a 'Eureka' moment when mulling over something that has been bothering me. Usually get back to sleep quite quickly then.

[carorees]

I can't find anything on PubMed about #magnesium supplementation for insomnia, but I did find some info about low magnesium levels being associated with metabolic syndrome and a host of other conditions. See here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22364157

I don't know how you would know if you were not getting enough magnesium in your diet but there's a list of magnesium rich foods here: http://www.algaecal.com/algaecal-ingred ... ich-foods/

My husband suffers from those early morning wake ups too - although since starting 5:2 he's having them less. What actually used to wake him up was his digestion as he had a tendency to have a snack just before bed - often of crackers and cheese, and he'd wake up either with indigestion or needing the toliet. Once he'd been to the loo he was then too awake to go back to sleep and those 'work worries' would activate his brain and he'd not get back to sleep.

So, maybe have a look at what time you are eating? Now hubby has cut out the cheese on an evening he's not waking anywhere near as much. Even if you still feel the need for a bedtime snack, try and make sure it's something easily digested.

Also look at your caffeine intake pattern. Proper coffee and tea is good for you in moderation, but as it definitely affects your brain, make sure you aren't having too much on an evening. I have a policy of coffee only before 12 noon, then tea in the afternoon/early evening, and no caffeine at all after 7pm. That way, you will have metabolizes most of the caffeine in your system before you sleep and levels will be lowest in the middle of the night.

And generally, are you of an age where your bladder is starting to nudge you in the night too? In which case don't drink too much of anything just before bed.

suchard - thanks but to be honest I quite like having the cats around too. My own worst enemy I know...

Googling magnesium and sleep I found this Guardian article by Dr John Briffa who has been mentioned a few times here. He makes various suggestions, including (separately) magnesium and a bath - I guess an epsom salt bath is a win-win then? I don't like baths though, and an epsom salt shower would be tricky to organise...

A banana (except on a fast day), 50mg of 5-HTP and 400mg magnesium might all be workable, also to keep off coffee once it's past midday (so that's my caffeine loading done for today...)

Sorry, 3 replies came in there while I was lackadaisically composing mine, so thank you for those!

I use the time to go over plans for the day

Yes I have sometimes followed advice to 'stop worrying, sit up and make a list', which has worked sometimes when I have tried it i.e. I can then get back to sleep. Sometimes when I lie down again I just think of more things to go on the list!

a list of magnesium rich foods here

Thanks, looking through foods I am not doing too badly though I wouldn't be sure I am getting 400mg each day. Still makes me think that magnesium deficiency is unlikely to be my problem, since I eat a lot more spinach that most people!

if you still feel the need for a bedtime snack, try and make sure it's something easily digested.

On non-fast days I do tend to snack in the late evening, an orange say (and chocolate sometimes too). Maybe I should stop that, or have a banana instead and get that tryptophan (amino acid that converts into serotonin)...

I have a policy of coffee only before 12 noon

Sounds like good advice - agrees with Dr Briffa! I have been drinking coffee in the early afternoon (not later) - especially with my new Nespresso machine. I will stick to the decaff capsules after noon now. Thank you.

Looks like a lot of responses on this topic already. I suffered from a lot of insomnia. I had trouble sleeping when I first started the fasting. I have to say that my insomnia is completely gone. I have lost 5 pounds on this diet so far, and I sleep like a baby every single night. It is pretty amazing frankly.

I have suffered years of waking up at anytime between 2am and 5am and not being able to get back to sleep until about 6am when it is nearly time to get up and go to work. If it's 5am I don't mind so much because it's not too early to get up. I have learned that if I walk, I sleep. If I stop walking, I start to wake up again. Wnen I can establish good habits of walking about an hour a day, I will soon have no more sleep issues. If I get out of that habit - as I am at the moment, in a matter of a week or so, I will find myself waking up at night. I have found this true time and time again. I am amazed that no doctor ever made the link when I spoke about sleep issues to them. Last night I was awake from 3 am until I got up and had a hot milk drink and read my book in the loungeroom until about 5.30, when I started to feel sleepy and went back to bed. Slept until 9am, as I could do, as we are on school holidays. I want to get back to walking, so this problem will go away again.