The FastDay Forum

As a number of us have mentioned that we have problems with lack of sleep, I wanted to ask what ideas / strategies / nerdy info anyone could suggest here. Insomnia has all sort of negative implications including serious health ones. If we can crack the diet problem surely we can deal with a little thing like this?

My own difficulty is waking early. I almost never have any difficulty going to sleep. But I wake too often at 4 or 5 am and that is it. Occasionally I manage to get back to sleep after a couple of hours but that isn't much help as it is then usually time to get up.

My impression is that I am woken by thought patterns getting diverted into a specific directed avenue rather than wandering in a dreamlike fashion. I find I am 'thinking through' something and that wakes me up. Whether that is an underlying cause or a symptom I can't say.

I see from earlier posts that fasting may disrupt sleep a bit the night afterwards (raised cortisol?). My OH does seem to have this problem (basically she gets hungry!), but not me. In fact I would say fasting has had no effect on my sleep patterns, but they remain too often, though by no means always, disrupted.

Any ideas gratefully received...

Haven't got any ideas to offer, but I also have terrible sleeping problems. Usually get to sleep OK, but wake up in the early hours in a panic, and it takes a few hours to get back to sleep. Strangely I get my best nights sleep after fasting, possibly because I haven't had any alcohol, or maybe something to do with effect of fasting on me.

Look forward to any helpful suggestions

[carorees]

I feel your pain as a fellow insomniac!

Dr M is putting the finishing touches to a commentary about insomnia so look out for that! We will be true disciples if we do 5:2, HIIT and whatever his insomnia cure is!

My sleep is terrible...can't get to sleep for she's and when I do, I wake every 2 hours and can't get back to sleep for an hour before getting another 2 hour stint. Lucky if I get 5 hours interrupted sleep. Best sleep of the night is from 8am onwards. Unfortunately I have to get up at 7am!

However, I do know quite a few tips (which I mostly fail to follow). First, sleep restriction is supposed to be very good, especially for people who feel tired all the time. It sounds contradictory but it does work. (If I force myself to get up at 7 rather than begging OH to do the school run while I catch up on some sleep, I do actually sleep better the next night.) The principle is that you work out how much time you actually spend asleep, then you subtract that from the time you want to get up and that's your bedtime. (So if you normally go to sleep at 11pm and get 4 hours sleep then perhaps you're awake for a couple of hours and then manage to grab another 2 hours and then wake again at 6am, but you want to be able to sleep through until 8 am, your new bedtime would be 2am). You then stay up and awake and don't go to bed until the designated bedtime. You do this until you are sleeping through then you can bring the bedtime back a bit by 15 min at a time. If the insomnia returns you know you've gone you far (so you might think you would like to get 8 hours every night but it might be that your body doesn't need so much and whereas you can sleep through for 7 hours, the insomnia returns when you move you're bedtime to allow 8 hours. So you have to settle for 7 hours. Rather like fasting, it is gruelling at first as you have some very tired days. I think you're not meant to schedule less than 5 hours sleep though so if you normally get 4 hours you'd still start the process by aiming for 5 hours. Not sure if that makes sense but I'm sure there'll be info on the Web about it.

As well as that you should not have any clocks visible in the bedroom so if you wake, you just try to go back to sleep. You should not look at any screens/light sources for at least an hour before sleep time so off with the TV/iPad/smartphone etc and out with a good book. Last you should have an uncluttered bedroom with no TV, computer etc so that your bedroom is just used for sleep (well, I guess there is one thing you're allowed to do there too, ).

Meditation is another technique that can help insomnia. I believe Dr M will be promoting mindfulness which is a form of meditation that is particularly helpful if you have insomnia due to your mind churning away all night. There is a website where you can learn more. Mindfulness is also good for other problems, such as poor self-esteem and depression and chronic illness.

As I say, I know the theory but am lazy about following it...if you see me on the forum after midnight tell me to turn off the phone and go to sleep!!!

Soz...no helpfull suggestions from me either !!!
I have dreadfull sleep problems....but mainly pain related...nothing to do with 5:2
I too have little prob getting over....enough meds to knock me out...but waken about 4 a.m. I lie awake then waching the clock until 7 when my alarm is due to go off to get me up for work....strangelyI always feel that I could go to sleep just when it is time to get up!!!
I follow some basic rules...bedroom is for sleep ....so no lap top or i pad allowed in bedroom...blackout curtains....must try turning the clock away so I cannt see it ....thanks carorees...will try that !

[wildmissus]

I often go through phases of not sleeping well - can't get to sleep, waking several times during the night and can't get up in the morning. Fasting has made no difference to my sleeping pattern.

I know it sounds a bit off the wall but I saw on the back of a magazine something called an acupressure mat as recommended by one of the Nolan sisters! I googled it and then bought one off ebay for £12. It is a mat with lots of little plastic spikes on it (like a bed of nails). You lie on it from your bum to you shoulders with your knees bent and your head on a cushion for about 10/15 min before you go to bed. It feels a bit weird but my goodness it works.

Caroline, just read your post before pressing the submit button.......what great advice. I am terrible for having long lies in at the weekend to make up for lost sleep. I'll definitely give it a go.

Virginia, I've read several times that it you wake at 4am that's a sign of stress, no idea if it's true or not.

I have worked night-shifts and it really hasn't help my already-poor sleeping patterns. I don't think I've had a full night or a restful sleep for years.
I don't usually take anything for it; I just get my Kindle and go with the flow!

As it happens, when I visited my GP yesterday, he suggested I try MIANSERINE 10 mg (FR spelling), which he described as "a sleep moderator".
I took one tablet last night and I have spent the day feeling I have been hit over the head with a foam mallet!
That lasted until around 7 pm and I am just about to go to bed... and no repeat prescription!

I can't help thinking my insomnia could be linked to the Lévothyroxine (FR spelling) I take to make up for the missing thyroid gland, but my GP blanks me whenever I suggest it...

Meditation is definitely of huge benefit with sleeping problems. I had sleep related problems for years - continual waking and then waking very early. I started doing mindfulness meditation after attending a Vipassana retreat and it has helped enormously - for the most part, I sleep soundly and wake naturally around 6.30-7.00 am. Mindfulness meditation takes perseverance and practice, it's not a quick fix, but it is so worthwhile

I can recommend the following book which comes with a CD for guided meditation: "Mindfulness - a practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world" by Mark Williams and Danny Penman. This, in my opinion, is the best resource for beginning mindfulness meditation - comprehensive and easy to follow. It's available on Amazon.

Magnesium supplementation before bedtime also aids sleep.

Sometimes I drop dead on my bed. Other times though, especially if I have to wake up early, I have trouble sleeping. Add that to the palpitations from the thyroid and you get the perfect recipe for insomnia.
I do have the cure though because my doctor prescribed bromazepam which I take when anxiety/palpitations hit me and most of the times I sleep like a log.

Recently, I have slept much better, but last night woke with a jump at 4.30 and the brain kicked in. Hub's alarm went off at 6.15 and, like a trigger, I fell asleep, until mine went at 7.30 - could have slept for Britain.
I can control my eating (99% of the time) control alcohol intake, exercise etc, but sleep is the one unknown.
It seems that once I'm in a cycle of waking/insomnia, I'm in it for a few weeks, then it goes again.
Strage.

Probably shouldn't put in my 2 cents since I don't have this problem but I know that I sleep even better than usual after I have had a workout/swim. Perhaps the other key is practicing some type of meditation/mindfulness that allows one to wash away all the tensions of life...now if I could only achieve that exalted state while navigating the freeways.

I also have the early wake up problem. I've always been an early riser, but 4 or 5am is a bit ridiculous. I've tried going to sleep later, but that hasn't seemed to make any difference. I do also do the wake at 2 or 3 am (to go to the loo normally) and then can't go back to sleep. I'm not someone who stresses a lot, and mostly I don't lie and worry about things, my thoughts just meander along and I can't sleep.

I haven't found fasting has made much of a difference. My sleep has been better, but I think that's the lack of alcohol - even one drink in the evening seems to make a difference. It hasn't gone away entirely though.

I too have suffered from insomnia for many years and finally I am on the Sleepio course, which I purchased from Boots it can also be purchased online.It is a CBT type of course I am now on week 10 and the whole thing really works if one sticks to the rules, the sleep restriction on week 3 is quite barbaric but somehow it works and certainly removes the anxiety that surrounds Bedime.The Mindfulness book mentioned above by Marlathome is also very helpful and "Tired but Wired"by Nerina Ramlakhan contains many helpful tools for sleep.The Sleepio course is now even recommended on the NHS app.

I've suffered from terrible insomnia since I can remember, but I am hyperactive, I've found the best thing for me is going to bed at a certain time every night (9pm), reading for 30 mins, then turning out all light and with the television on really low so I can only just hear some noise and 'concentrating' on that, I find it switches my brain off so I can sleep, and then getting up at the same every morning 7 days a week. I do have some nights where this dose'nt help, but then if it happens more than twice I take herbal sleeping pills and then I'm back on it. Good luck xx

It could a magnesium deficit which can cause insomnia...Generally speaking we get most of our calcium from our diet but not enough magnesium. Both work together and are needed in the same amounts.

I was having terrible problems sleeping. But now I've switched to eating nothing until at least 2pm (except a white tea with some honey in it). Then I have a light late lunch and the majority of calories at dinner. Now, going to bed with fuller stomach means I sleep well. I tried before to split the calories between breakfast and dinner, but found I got much, much hungrier if I had activated my stomach with even a little food at breakfast versus no food at all until late in the day. Hope that helps?