The FastDay Forum

Hello All,
Apologies if this has already been asked... I have the following questions..

I usually cycle to work (15 miles one way) and tend to burn between 900-1000 cals each way. My BMR is around 1900 - so this means that i need to eat 3900 cals just to break even when cycling...

Today i tried to restrict my cals to 600 - but by 4pm I was feeling really really ill.

I read that the 600 number is 1/4 of the cals that you normally eat - does this then mean that I can munch around 900 cals on training days? Also, can i graze through the day to keep my energy levels topped up?

My training schedule is as follows:
Mon: Cycle to work, Cycle home - 30 miles (1800 - 2000 cal burn)
Tue: Cycle to work, Cycle home - 30 miles (1800 - 2000 cal burn)
Wed: Martial Arts.
Thr: Run to work, run home (10 miles - I get the train part way - 1500 cals)
Fri: Weights

cheers,
Jay
Pure.

[Tracieknits]

Welcome to the forums!!

*usually* people say "don't adjust your calories for a workout that day" - but then again most people's workouts aren't that intense.

The usual advice here is to use a TDEE calculator to figure out your TDEE (usually based on weekly exercise) and then you're allowed 25% of your TDEE on a fast day. I would imagine your 25% is significantly higher than 600 calories given your activity levels.

Alternately, you could make your fast days be lighter activity days.

Hope this helps!!

Good advice from Tracieknits!

Another thing to look at is what you are eating on fast days? You ask if you can graze all day long-you could, but it wouldn't really be fasting. Although a lot of people start with two meals most of us end up eating 1 on fast days, as we find we are less hungry like that! Also the first few fasts can be tough while your body gets used to it so I wouldn't worry too much about feeling odd, it can happen in the beginning.

Find out your TDEE and let us know what and when you ate so we can try to help more!

Why are you not built like a whippet? Stick your figures in the Tracker, see what that recommends as a TDEE and take it from there. Most forum members would probably advise 1/4 TDEE on fast days but I would certainly advise more, taken at lunchtime and dinnertime when you are cycling both ways, ie after the exercise to provide repair nutrition. How fast are you cycling/running? Do you push hard in both directions or take the mornings easier? Need to experiment a bit and see what works for you, aim to lose no more than a pound a week if you are determined to stay so active...

Good luck, anyway, in your journey - I am maintaining now but did 30-odd mile rides and 4 hour walks on no breakfast whilst I was fasting with no apparent ill effects.

Oh, and staying low carbohydrate might help - see Peter Attia's Eating Academy on the interweb for eye-opening info on low-carb exercise regimes - there is an article on ketosis and glycogen debt when cycling which is very appropriate to the question of how to judge how much carbohydrate you can take for replenishment after exercise.

Not seeing your progress chart makes any recommendation difficult, but from my own experience I've been running up to 20 km on my zero calorie days and feeling fine, it takes some time for your body to adapt to fat burning, that's all. Staying away from carbs makes the combination of exercise and fast a lot easier.

I actually don't think it's important to eat before/during/after exercise, and suspect it's a myth fueled by people selling gels, energy drinks and power bars.

I don't see the point of increasing your calorie intake when exercising, you should get by just fine on 600 or less once you're properly fat adapted. If you graze you probably miss out on other health benefits, doesn't seem like a good idea.

Hi All,
thanks so much for the super quick replies!

I went here: http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/ and typed in all the info required. My BMR is currently 1821 and my TDEE is 2664.

@CreakyPete - one of the reasons i'm doing this plan is that Im not built like a whippet!! And with all this work going on, I think I most certainly should be!
Thanks for the low carb resources, I'm looking into that now and I reckon I may have some carb issues (in that, if you eat a cake i'll get fat ) - I dont eat breakfast on weekdays or before i ride/run into work anyway so agree with Michael H on that count.

To be honest i am really confused as to how i should make this plan work with my training and have enough energy to give my training sessions the intensity they deserve - whilst losing weight.

For my week rides on fast days (up to 20k averaging 16mph) I'll have a few almonds and plenty of water when I get back.

Any other day I'll have a Banana, yes they are higher in calories but they have other benfits. Weekends when I'm doing 30-40k + I'll also take a small pack of Jelly Babies for my half way snack. I was told the sugar type in Jelly Babies makes them really fast to have an effect so your body burns them during the ride and not later.

Get your weight and stats etc in to the tracker, this will give you your TDEE and fast day amounts. I really don't think having a banana or other fuel after your rides is going to hurt. The trick is to find your balance between feeling ok for the day and not overdoing it.

In my opinion (which may be wildly wrong but I'm doing ok on the weight loss and cycling) this WOL is about calorie deficit over a period of time. Don't think of it as a single day dieting when you shed the pounds.

In a week you need X number of calories, for every 3600 less than you need 1 lb of fat is lost. (ok that's a real generalisation).

If you are cycling 30 miles a day + all those other workouts you mention, I'm amazed you can eat enough to keep up !! the amount of weight from muscle increase would also skew the scales !

Good luck
Simmer

Hi Simmer,
thanks for coming back to me. Actually, this is one of the reasons im trying this plan, my training before was way more extreme (cycling everyday for 5 days 150 miles per week!) - But i found that i was still not losing weight!! Beyond being maddeningly frustrating and exhausting, I was at a loss as to what to do.

So going to do this plan for the next 3 months and see how i do. I've updated my tracker now so im told that my TDEE is 2808 and Fast Cals are 702.

I've just bought the EatStopEat Plan by Brad Pilon which was recommended by someone else.

I'll add the banana after the training ride and see if that helps.

Hi Pure

I will give you my two cents being someone who was really struggling recently while training for a marathon. Creakypete was invaluable to me as the voice of practicality. I second what everyone says, you should be able to adapt your training. I was triathlon training all summer and found it very tough to adapt - cycling tends to burn a lot of cals but not a lot of weight in my experience.

I TDEE is 1800 with my marathon training. I give myself one day off which is the day of my long runs. However, I think if you want to train like you are, you will need to build slowly. I think you will have to not train the first few fasts you do until your body adapts. I have stopped eating complex carbs and am limiting my sugar intake as I was experience hypoglycemia on 18-20 mile runs which is a big no no. You need to become a fat burner - not glucose burner. However, by continuing your regime, you're sending your body into shock when it is used to being fueled (probably by sugar). I think if you could do 2 fasts and limit your exercise and gradually increase it over 2-3 weeks you would stick the plan a lot easier.

I'm on week 2 (after restarting the plan) and doing a lot better by eating more fruit, veg, nuts, raisons and protein. I'm limiting the carbs big time

Hey Jmousey!
really appreciate your advice and will give that a go - I'm definitely a sugar burner and find it hard without that nefarious substance in my life.. Tri training is where im heading to next so expect some more questions!

thanks again!

Hi Pure,

How have the last few fasts gone? Did you bike on your fast days? I'm a mountain biker and the first time I tried biking on a fast day I took 'emergency' supplies with me on the trail and biked 1/3 the distance of a short day/recovery day's ride. I slowly increased the distance on my bike over a few fasts. I have never done a long ride on my fast days, but I found I shed a lot more weight the weeks I biked/fasted on the same day even though it was a shorter ride. Very motivating. Just take baby steps to judge how your body does with it.

Love to hear an update.