The FastDay Forum

Anyone else read this article? My PT just sent it to me this morning:

http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/train-man-eat-woman

It seems to me like the women in the article are seeing fasting as a punishment followed by binge eating sessions. I don't know if any of the ladies here also does weight lifting as their predominant exercise, but I find fasting as a way to give me body a bit of a break. I don't train on those days and I eat very, very cleanly when I do fast and avoid bingeing (I probably don't actually eat enough!) on my feed days...

What do you think? Are we screwing ourselves over hormonally?

An interesting article. I too am a little concerned about the hormonal effects (my cycle has definitely changed), stress/cortisol and the possibility of nutritional deficiencies for those of us heading into menopause or perhaps still planning/having babies. That is why I get a little concerned about the people experimenting with longer term fasts or liquid only fasts.
I think the 5:2 as MM suggests is quite moderate though. I don't even stick to the 500 if I don't feel like it. As with all things in life "moderation in all things".

Many women begin to drink an incredible amount of coffee to sustain their energy and suppress their appetite in order to get through their fasting window.

This stuck out to me because I've noticed some people try to eat in a way that staves off hunger. I got the impression that part of the benefit to IF was to teach us that hunger is okay and that we don't have to eat every time we feel it. That's the approach I'm taking anyway. I tried waiting not eating all day to keep from triggering my appetite later on, but I was a miserable person. Now I eat a breakfast and simply acknowledge when I feel hungry and leave it at that without eating. These women seem to have skipped that step.

I'm with Caro: moderation in all things. The article is referring to women that work out "like a man" and are focused on building muscle. How much body fat was the goal for these women? Too low and it can cause women to stop menstruating as the article pointed out. That is pretty immoderate to my way of thinking. Sure exercise and get/stay in shape, but going to the extreme end in anything carries risks.

This article certainly gives food for thought - and I think would make good reading for many of the women amongst us who are doing longer and longer fasts, particularly water only. Fasting becomes quite addictive/seductive to some people and it is easy for an element of the longer I fast, the better I feel, the more benefits I will get to creep in. This is quite a sobering read and I for one prefer to do 5.2 along the more moderate lines suggested by Dr. M. at least until a lot more studies and research has been done, specifically on women, and how it impacts fertility (although in my case that train has left the station!), hormones and issues relating to post menopause etc. Until then I will keep doing it my way - moderately! If it ain't broke why fix it ?

Midway down the article was a link to an article on "intermittent fasting."

http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/revi ... illing-me/

It's interesting that when you read the details of articles that take a negative view of IF how very different the IF they are talking about is from the IF we practice here...

[Betsysgr8]

What I didn't see in the article was the bodyfat percentage of the women she 'interviewed' when they tried to fast or their activity levels at the time, it appeared as though these are extremely fit, low bmi, high-intensity women. I also got the impression that they didn't IF with a clear understanding of the goal. I was especially impressed with the comment by David Dellanave following the article:

David Dellanave
Lauren,

I respect that you had a bad experience using Intermittent Fasting, but I think it should be left at that - your experience.

I have a gym full of women, many of who have used an IF strategy at one point or another and none have reported the dramatic negative affects you all are. Here is what I think is different:

1) From day 1 I teach my clients to work within their limits inside the gym and out. When we talk about IF, one of the first things we discuss are the things you can do (moving, drinking, taking your mind off it) before deciding to break a fast. If none of those work, break the fast. Simple as that. Whether it be 24 hour, or 16 hour style, very few of my clients jump right into going the full length of the intended fast. They just do what they can.

2) I don't disagree that IF places an additional burden of stress on the body, and I usually tell people that if they're under a lot of stress, IF is probably not something to add on top. That said, whether or not it is good stress or excessive stress depends on the person and their response to it. It is exactly the type of biochemical eustress that some people need. Keira reported higher cortisol - well, yeah. What ELSE was going on? Did she add IF on top of an already excessive burden of stress? Is IF really to blame here? Is that the ONLY thing that was different? If so, I'd wonder if the high cortisol wasn't going to catch up to her anyway. You can't operate at red-line forever, as I know many of you ladies who are high functioning ass kickers tend to do.

3) One of my over-arching goals for my clients is to increase their adaptability. I want them to be able to do more things. Squat, deadlift, sprint - and handle food better. One of the directions in which to increase adaptability is the length of time between meals. I want my clients to be ABLE to go 24 hours without food. I also want them to be able to eat 6 meals if they're available. People who can do many things, and are highly adaptable, are more healthy. IF is a way to extend that adaptability window. If someone starts to fall about because they haven't eaten in 4 hours, that is a problem.
4) I look at people's biochemical needs through a lens of what is missing. Craig Keaton, one of the smartest guys I know especially with regards to the unique need of women, said something to me and it was actually specifically in regard to IF. He pointed out that people often us Intermittent Fasting as a way to "stabilize" a something they're doing too much of (a hyper function) instead of looking for what they're not doing enough of (a hypo function.) What nutrients are you missing? What foods are you not eating? How are you not resolving stress? Why ARE you under so much stress? What is your training like? Are you making your training too hard, therefore too distressful?

If you will look at things through this lens, you WILL do better, I promise it. Everyone pretty much knows what they're doing too much of, but if you could do anything about that we be talking about it. What are you NOT doing enough of?

5) I don't treat any two clients the same. If I have a girl walk in who is 16% BF and a former Crossfitter who is busted up both physically and physiologically I am not going to tell her she needs to a stick Paleo + IF template. That is what messed her up to begin with. When a woman walks in who is 30% bodyfat and has never cooked a meal in her own kitchen in her life, maybe some whole foods and IF is exactly what she needs. My point is - you women are operating at a very high level, but you also have a different history. "It didn't work for me, so it can't work for you" isn't a very good message.
I apologize in advance if anything I wrote sounds like a personal attack. That's not my intention - but when Jen Sinkler, my very own beloved fire breather of a lady, pointed this article out to me I couldn't help but present the counterpoint

[Betsysgr8]

Midway down the article was a link to an article on "intermittent fasting."

http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/revi ... illing-me/

It's interesting that when you read the details of articles that take a negative view of IF how very different the IF they are talking about is from the IF we practice here...

Very true! She was very healthy and could have continued to be healthy if she had fasted the 5:2 way. No where,
in the FastDiet book or on this forum, have I seen a recommendation to eat like she discribed. Now she blames IF when it was probably the actual binge junk food/fast cycle that caused all her problems.