The FastDay Forum

I am joining a gym to do Pump classes twice a week (weights - all my good intentions with my dum bells and body weight exercises mean nothing if I never get around to doing them).

The classes that fit for me are Mon and Thurs 6am. Those are my usual fast days. Now cardio I do on fast days all the time and never have an issue, but my reason for doing pump is specifically to strengthen/build muscle. If I do the weight training and then don't eat for 24 hours, surely that'll mean I'm undoing some (most?) of the good?

I could have something high protein straight after the exercise, but 1) what would I have to maximise the protein (would rather stick to food than a product) and 2) I normally liquid fast, so while I have plenty of calories to spare, the biggest reason I liquid fast is because eating triggers more hunger. (Suppose I could try it and see, nothing to lose)

Other option would be to change fast days, but that really only leaves Tues/Fri, and I can see Fri being awkward often.

Anyone do weights on a fast day and have advice?

The leangains site might have some advice. If I remember correctly, he recommends working out fasted (with only BCAAs) then having a meal afterward. The type if fasting is an eating window, though, so different from your case. I'll try to find link.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leanga ... e.html?m=1

[Debs]

Give it a try kata mac, I know that I struggle if I do strength training in a fasted state and have to have a protein shake afterwards. You may be different though; I just get ravenous, whereas I have no problem with cardio, so I stick to my weights on a non fasting day. Good luck with it.

I do something similar one day a week but have two boiled eggs after my workout (you can boil them the day before) and a coffee with milk. Then a miso soup at lunch (something salty) and chicken stir fry at night (more protein and veggies). I think you need to have some protein after intensive exercise to help your muscles recover. And plenty of water during the day.

Thanks everyone. Yeh, think I'll need to have some protein - two eggs might be the way to go. Hopefully that doesn't kick my appetite too much. I should still have plenty of energy because it's the morning at the start of the fast, I just don't want to not build up muscle because I'm fasting so not getting any protein.

I have to admit that I don't count the eggs towards my 540 calories (that's what I am allowed). I feel that I have used up an equivalent if not more amount of calories at the gym. It hasn't stalled my weight loss so I'll keep doing it.

I did have the odd protein drink instead of eggs when I started this but I am now much more focused on healthy eating, non-processed foods but the calories would have been the same. Please @KataMac let us know what food you settle on and whether you think it makes a difference.

Grats @katamac with the decision
If it's Les Mills Bodypump I know it and it's great. My wife is Bodypump instructor and I can vouch it's a rounded hour of work and will touch many muscles - don't feel tempted to put on too much weight at start. That said, I find Bodypump somewhere in between cardio and strength training. There are many repetitions with a lower weight, while "hardcore" strength training would have you do 8-12 reps maybe 3 times. In a BodyPump session you might do hundreds of a given move.
Your question is interesting in the way that those of us who do exercises that burn 500 kcals or more on a regular basis maybe need to look closer at this: From the 5:2 diet book web

We simply use the term Fast Days to describe the days when we limit our food intake to a quarter of what our bodies need

In the beginning I calculated my TDEE by adding a weeks exercises, sitting hours, walks etc. together and then get a daily average. While that works fine, I think it might be better to refine it a bit. If we want to build muscle we need to eat the stuff that builds it and if we want to combine losing weight with building muscle, I think we need to eat smarter than going by an average. Maybe we need to look at TDEE on a day to day basis when we have workloads of an hour/more than burning 600 kcals?
That should leave room on a training day for more than 500 kcals, which was never intended to be cut in stone I guess. Doing a daily TDEE calculation you might find on workout days you have room for 6-700. It's worth checking out because "eat as you need" makes life a lot happier and easier (to eat the right things).

My own summary so far:
- Don't enter an hour of exercise feeling drained, how could that help you build a healthy body? If you need, take a (half) banana or the like 20 mins before.
- Have something with proteins AND carbs shortly after, maybe not because it's imperative to build muscle (the jury is out on this I think), but because
A) It feels damn good!
B) Eating something with carbs and protein in the 150-200 kcals portion region refuels you for the next workout.
C) It's a lot easier to stay on the path and not eat wrong stuff because it takes the top of any hunger you might feel afterwards. Personally I go for the easy stuff here: 1 dl skim milk and 20 g of whey protein.

Any thoughts on this?

You will see the advice a lot NOT to compensate for exercise calories. I think the main reason for this is that many people tend to OVER compensate. If you have a good idea what you are really burning, I don't see anything wrong with your plan. For certain types of workouts (muscle building, long training runs) it's probably essential.

Before doing long training runs for the half-marathon, when I was actively trying to lose a lot of weight, I didn't eat any extra calories to compensate for exercise (I still set my activity level to sedentary to calculate my TDEE actually). If I'm planning on doing an 18k run, though, I eat a banana at least, particularly if I fasted the day before. I'm very sure I'm not over compensating and it makes the run SO much better. I need to be more careful about getting protein after resistance training, though...

Great breakdown RunningOlsen, thank you. Good to hear your experience too MaryAnn.

I'm currently not watching what I eat at all for 5 days a week, then just not eating anything on my 2 fast days, but drinking tea (with milk) so I worked out that would be about 100-150 calories in milk maximum - so well under my 500 for quarter of my TDEE (my TDEE is a smidge over 2000).

So I definitely have the calories to have an after exercise snack, I'm just worried that it will make me hungrier. The reason I liquid fast is because I find it easier just not eating at all rather than eating just 500 calories of food. No way of knowing until I try it though.

I'll be exercising on less than 12 hours of fasting, so should still have all my usual morning energy. I also already do heaps of exercise on fast days, and have never had an issue with any of it (walking, hiking, indoor soccer, skating, so mostly moderate cardio.)

Will let you know how I go.

An update on this. After pondering RunningOlsen's summary of the pump class and what I wanted to achieve, I realised that as much as I enjoy pump, they're not the weights that I'm actually after. So I have joined the gym and will do weights 2-3 times a week, but because it won't be a locked in class, I can do the sessions on non fast days. That means I don't need to worry about the protein on a fast day. I will probably also do a pump class every now and then, because I enjoy them, but it won't be my main focus for muscle building.

This is interesting as I do body pump a couple of times a week. Once coincides with my fast day. I do a spinning class afterwards as well, so this is a fair amount of calories burnt (yes I know that is excessive but I cant stop).

I was worried I would find it too hard as I only eat in the evening on fast days. I was really surprised that I can do the two classes in the morning and not feel too bad and have no ill effects during the day. I don't seem to be losing muscle, but then as had been said it is mainly cardio.

I don't adjust at all for exercise calories, my TDEE is higher because of what I do and on non fast days I rarely eat my full allowance, though I do try. This has so far produced a slow weight loss, so is probably ok for me.

When I started this WOE I decided I was not going to change my routine for it as that makes it the focus of my days and weeks and not sustainable. I just wanted to not eat and otherwise carry on as normal. I think so far this has worked.

it is interesting to read what works for others.

I did P90X last year which involved alot of weights and got up to train at 6am too. On fast days I drank a bulletproof coffee before I worked out which gave me the energy to train hard. Afterward I ate some protein, eg a couple of eggs, some chicken or even steak. This frequently meant that I had eaten all of my fast day calories before 10am in the morning, but then I didn't eat again until the following morning, normally another bulletproof coffee.

I know most here eat their fast day calories late in the day, but for me, this worked a treat and I lost alot of weight (gained 10lbs back when I stopped).

I wish I liked coffee because I'm sure a bullet proof coffee would be awesome after weights!

It is fascinating isn't it Gill how different things work for different people. Always good to hear what works for others.

Reading these threads again I feel reassured that what I eat before a workout (small banana) and afterwards (two eggs or 200ml milk with 20gr protein powder) seems ok. Anything less and I don't feel that I have enough energy. It doesn't seem to matter whether I train on a fasting day or not but then I train first thing in the morning.