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How many calories break a fast
09 Apr 2013, 09:34
Hi, I'm male, in my early 50s diagnosed with hypothyroidism and chronic fatigue. I have been on the diet for six weeks now and have lost 16 pounds which is amazing. Actually most of the weight loss was in the first four weeks which was a bit worrying, but it has plateaued a bit since. Even better than the weight loss is that my energy levels have gone up for the first time in years! It isn't just more energy because my weight has dropped. I felt the energy from the beginning of the diet.

I started off doing 24 hours from supper to a slightly later supper :shock: but found with my decreasing appetite I didn't feel a need for supper on non fast days. So I wasn't going to let that change go to waste so I dropped supper altogether (most days) and started going 36 hours from dinner to breakfast, breaking my fast with breakfast on the fast day. I have since changed to lunch on the fast day to go for the 16 hour fast mentioned on page 76 in the fast diet book. Which brings me to my question...

I begin my day with a strong mug of filter coffee, which is simply horrible without milk. Ugh! On page 177 it talks about milk in tea and coffee and says "what you are trying to do is extend the length of time you are not consuming any calories at all." The comment was about keeping hydrated by dringing lots of cups of tea and coffee with milk. How much effect would 20 kcal of milk in a single mug of coffee have, would that little still stimulate an insulin response? I bought caffeine tablets yesterday though a mug's worth will still gives me 2 kcal of dextrose, would this still have an effect or is there a threshold below which a small intake make no difference? I checked the info sheets for the meds which I take in the morning and though they don't give the amount they do contain lactose, sucrose, dextrose and gelatine.

Has any research been done on the minimum amount of glucose that stimulates a insulin response, or if small calorie intakes, like milk in coffee, take from the effectiveness of a fast period?

Thanks D_C
Hi D_C! I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge to answer your question, but I'm sure some of the nerds will be along soon to help out :)

Just wanted to say hello & welcome you to the forum. Sounds like you're doing really well with this so far, which is great. After the initial period of higher loss it's quite normal to come down to a more slow and steady loss, around 1lb a week is the average though some lose more quickly and some more slowly.

On viewing your topic, the similar topics list below has the following which might be of interest:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=773
D_C wrote: Has any research been done on the minimum amount of glucose that stimulates a insulin response, or if small calorie intakes, like milk in coffee, take from the effectiveness of a fast period?

Thanks D_C


Response tests tend to use 25g or more of carbohydrate, so a large glass (pint ?) of milk rather than what you would put in your coffee. There's an insulin response to the protein in milk as well as the carbs.

"Ingestion of six grams of casein hydrolysate along with 50g of glucose did not affect glucose or insulin responses. Intake of 12 g of casein hydrolysate has a small positive effect on post-challenge insulin and glucose levels in patients with type 2 diabetes." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21570642

With only 5g of glucose in total in your bloodstream it doesn't take much to change it, your 20 kcals would fuel you for about 15-20 minutes at rest.

Not aware of any research specifically about threshold intakes, sorry.
What about simply buying better quality coffee? I get Peet's coffee here in the United States. I grind it myself and make it in a Chemex coffee maker. It tastes so good, I don't really need cream or sugar.
Thanks for the welcome and all the information.

PhilT wrote: "Ingestion of six grams of casein hydrolysate along with 50g of glucose did not affect glucose or insulin responses. Intake of 12 g of casein hydrolysate has a small positive effect on post-challenge insulin and glucose levels in patients with type 2 diabetes." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21570642

With only 5g of glucose in total in your bloodstream it doesn't take much to change it, your 20 kcals would fuel you for about 15-20 minutes at rest.

Not aware of any research specifically about threshold intakes, sorry.

That fits with an article a websearch threw up on the Weightology website (I haven't a clue who they are, but they seem to be quoting PubMed). Insulin response is stronger for 675 Calorie high protein meals than the same Calorie high carb meal, even though the blood sugar response was higher after the high carb. There is only about 1.9g of carbohydrate and 1.4g protein in the milk I would take with a cup of coffee, well below the 6g protein and 50g glucose you mention. But still we don't know how the benefits of the fast period work. It may not be insulin related at all.

The big problem does seem to be a lack of information and research. The person mentioned in the book on 16hrs does it because it suits her. The book refers to better results for mice longevity, but restricted diet results for mice longevity don't seem to apply with humans.

Rufus wrote: What about simply buying better quality coffee? I get Peet's coffee here in the United States. I grind it myself and make it in a Chemex coffee maker. It tastes so good, I don't really need cream or sugar.

I have found in the past that if a café serves a really good cup of coffee, I will sometimes drink it without milk, of course it tends to be accompanied by a Danish pastry or a slice of cheese cake. Not sure I could manage even a decent cup without milk first thing on a fast day. Anyway, according to the USDA my mug of coffee itself, without milk, is about 2 Cal :shock:

Hmm. I can get sugar free caffeine tablets online, which may suit our budget better as well. I could even shift my meds to lunchtime, as long as I don't forget them. I suppose in the absence of any real data on minimum calorie intakes during fast periods I might as well shift as much of my morning calorie intake to lunchtime. I do enjoy getting a brisk walk in the morning while I am fasting so if I can maximise any possible benefit so much the better.

Thanks. You have a great website here with loads of information D_C
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