The FastDay Forum

@debsie, I can relate! I can't bear to count every day either, not for the reasons you state, but just because I tend to rebel against restrictions. Perhaps you could try this: in a paper notebook, jot down what you're eating (this is for non-fast days) without trying to add it all up or otherwise quantify. At the end of a week or two, input all into MyFitnessPal or some other calorie tracker. This will give you an idea of how much you're taking in on non-fast (what I call normal) days without turning you into a human calculator. (I haven't done WW, but I did The Zone for quite awhile, which is also very "counting" oriented (not calories but "blocks") and drove me nuts!)

I didn't find that windows worked for me; I tend to overeat with that particular stricture. I guess anything I have to do every day is a problem for me...

5:2 has helped me be more in touch with actual hunger and to (usually...) eat based on that, not on calories, carbs, fat, etc etc etc. In fact, sometimes I get a little mad, because I find that I'm not hungry, but there's something yummy I WANT to eat, but don't feel that I can/should because I'm not hungry (I mean on normal days). So this is still a work in progress; I guess those naturally skinny people just DON'T EAT if they aren't hungry...bizarre.

I ditto ferretgal's suggestion of at least keeping a food diary.

None of us (who were overweight to start with) are going to lose weight if we don't change the way we eat. I think that usually requires some analysis. On another thread about not counting calories on non-fast days, I mentioned that I didn't at first (though I did keep a food diary), but then I stopped losing as I neared my goal. I started counting to get a feel for how many calories were in the foods I commonly eat (this is a bit complicated for me because I live in Japan, and I don't know what I'm eating a lot of the time haha). I don't count all the time now, but if I'm not very mindful of what I eat, my weight goes up even though I'm fasting 3 times a week.

If this were easy, there would be far fewer overweight/obese people in the world.

Very helpful post @Nicky_94. I think there is obviously a lot of emotion here. I don't know what will work. I haven't got answers. I am not losing weight at the moment either, but i am not putting it on, as I have always done in the past when I have lost weight. But what if you just try to relax about the weight. Do the fasts. Do them rigourously. Try to eat 'normally' and healthily on the other days. Be aware of being hungry or not hungry, stopping eating when you've had enough. Don't count calories or worry too much about non fast days - I know a lot of people disagree with me and because I'm not losing weight I don't feel I have a very strong case - I just can't do it, as others have said. It isn't a diet. If i want to go on a diet. there are diets. But this isn't what I signed up for here. Let go of the desperation to lose weight. Just do the fasts. Try to have faith that it will work eventually. If not today, if not this week, this month, one day. Just do it. One fast at a time. lots of love to you.

ooh thank you, I am getting that book! x x

An overview of Spinardi's book: e.g., post205540.html?hilit=spinardi#p205540

Eating 'coz you ate is something that people seem to identify with, a lot. And, yes, it looks like something that is associated with counting where that is accompanied by a sense of deprivation/restriction. One of the essential aspects of fasting is embracing it as a choice so that it isn't experienced as deprivation/restriction and thereby feeling in control of a WOE/eating schedule rather than so out of control that only an iron will keeps consumption in bounds.

I eat a wide range of foods and I've taken to preparing them very simply so that it's easier to have a sense of the calorie content. I wish that it were easier to do this tho' and that the UK/EU governments would sponsor something like the USDA food database that would be more relevant to what we eat and thus make it easier to use. For me, that would be a good investment of public health money.

@debsie if it's any consolation I have as I predicted put on 2 pounds this week which while upsetting I knew was going to happen.

This is a really interesting topic for me because like you I want to be liberated from counting .. and I have counted them all .. calories , points, syns, fat grams you name it I counted it but I think until I get more of a handle on what is normal for a person of my dimensions (I'm only 5ft 2 and my TDEE is only 1680 cals) I am going to have to do it if I want to loose .. and I really do as I have a special holiday next April for my husbands 50th and I really don't want to be a wibbly sticky mess in Florida

Last week I know I ate all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons ..like you I am a master at self sabotage. My head knows that eating a family size bag of crisps wasnt going to fix my laptop but it didn't stop my bad temper doing it !
I can't offer any constructive advice as to how to fix it but just wanted you to know there are a few of us out here going through the same thing x
So I am off to hunt down these books for a read to see if it helps

Yes @SSure, it was after reading your post about it that I got the book, thanks for the recommendation, I have not been so relaxed about food in years, possibly ever! It's not for everyone, and many people fast without feeling deprived, but I couldn't seem to fast 'normally' and this book really helped me with a lot of very deep food issues.

[Tracieknits]

I strongly recommend you read something by Amanda Sainsbury-Salis, Ph.D. She is a woman who, after becoming obsese in her teen years went on to get her PhD and become an obesity researcher. She's done yoyo diets and all of the things many of us have done.

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Go-Hungry-Di ... bury-salis

I found her books to be very, very helpful. She does *NOT* recommend counting calories or weighing food. And I think her process is very helpful for emotional overeating. She has some reasonable guidelines, and wants you to journal how you feel before eating, after eating, and what you ate. It really helps with learning about what you eat.

Now that being said, I know some people on this forum do well with eating windows, and some do not. That's okay, we're all different. I personally don't really see eating windows as being all that helpful to me, because I tend to find myself overeating because the window is closing soon. That's not good.

A conclusion I've come to after a very long time of being involved with weight loss, maintenance, and online diet support communities is that if our focus is on MAINTAINING our weight loss, we have to be realistic about how much deprivation we can stand while achieving it. That's because there is no moment when we reach goal and then can eat a lot more food.

My experience has been that while maintaining I can eat maybe 200-300 calories a day more than I ate during weight loss, and even then I will slowly regain and will have to go back on my diet every 6 months or year.

So if you diet by carefully counting and restricting, you will need to keep counting and restricting to maintain, particularly if you have lost more than 15% of your starting weight (maybe even 10% the research is all over the place, but 15% was where I ran into issues.)

So with that in mind, I have come to realize I have to "diet" on a diet that I really can eat forever, which, though people say it about all their diets, most don't fully believe.

I'm at that point now with 5:2 where weight loss has not only stopped, it has somewhat reversed. But there is no way I am going to start counting calories and not eating things I want to eat on feed days. That was what made this diet such a thrill after far too many years of mentally accounting for every bite I put into my mouth. I am at the point where I just can't do that any more.

So I'm going to keep doing 5:2 and accept that whatever weight I end up at is the best I'm going to be able to maintain. I am just hoping that I will be able to keep fasting without burning out on it over time. So far, so good, but I have learned that diets three years in can be much tougher to sustain than ones of less than a year's duration.

Hi I am sorry you seem to be the undoing of yourself. Who else knows you are doing this to loose weight have you got real world support apart from the forum? Do you do any exercise?
My opinion would be you need to sort out the emotional issues you have with food and yourself as well as the weight loss/maintaining.
I use to emotional eat but I don't anymore managed to sort that bit out and am now 4 stone lighter and jogging 2-3 times a week. It isn't easier doing any of this making big changes to your lifestyle can be hard. Good luck.