The FastDay Forum

After a reasonably good fast day, Im left a bit hungry. Oh Ok its 2am here on this cold morning but still in my regime its still a fast day from yesterday.

Anyway my hunger got me thinking.. maybe I'm not wanting to eat for emotional reasons, cause im sad, or bored or doing it out of some habit... maybe Im hungry because my body craves more nourishment, sustenance, all those good vitamins and minerals and anti-oxidants. Indeed "good" calories.

Is it possible that too much fasting (be it calorie reduction or too many hours of fasting at once) can cause the body to just really need more food?. And that this is a good thing.

Heaven forbid.. should I give in with even just some good wholesome food.

And perhaps this feeling of legitimate hunger is more likely when we are "nearly there" or close to our ultimate weight loss target.

Just putting it out there. What do you think?

Interesting thoughts JR, and I think you may be on to something there.

That is the policy I stick to following my instincts about my body 's messages. We do need energy for a lot of our body's functions and actions in our body even making decisions I heard on the radio by a researcher. When I get the message eg hungry tired and grumpy I think this body needs some nourishment and I feed it. Also don't want to undo my fasting so try to go for what I understand are healthy choices

I agree that sometimes the body does tell us when it needs food for nourishment - the trick is being able to distinguish between these times and the hunger monster... Tho as gillymary says, if you eat (and not overeat) wholesome food in response to those body cues, then you probably won't do much harm either way.

I know that if I don't have salad or cooked veggies for a couple of days, I really crave those.

It really is a matter of getting in tune with your body, and making sensible choices based on what you have eaten recently and what activities you are doing. But this can be quite a challenge!

I agree with what you are saying somewhat. But, I also think we've trained our bodies to eat a certain amount of food and every few hours, so it thinks it needs it. Kids often say they are not hungry at a certain meal and seem just fine. But, we force them to eat 3 meals a day and have done that ourselves for so many years that I think our stomach is confused!

I agree that sometimes the body does tell us when it needs food for nourishment - the trick is being able to distinguish between these times and the hunger monster... Tho as gillymary says, if you eat (and not overeat) wholesome food in response to those body cues, then you probably won't do much harm either way.

I know that if I don't have salad or cooked veggies for a couple of days, I really crave those.

It really is a matter of getting in tune with your body, and making sensible choices based on what you have eaten recently and what activities you are doing. But this can be quite a challenge!

that's the thing.. Most of the population isn't trained to distinguish it though I believe the community here has developed a very good knowledgebase to understand their bodies more than most.
Without making excuses the fact that im in the 71's again in kilos may just be my body fighting that i dont go too low. I will of course still strive for my Christmas goal of 69.0 on Libra trend figure but something tells me getting lower than 69.5 would be a big struggle. I will make the ultimate judgement probably around Jan next year as to my real "stop point" in this weight loss endeavour of mine. I actually liked my body shape when Libra said i was about 70.0 to 70.5 kg.

What i did do last night is have a mouthful of leftover pumpkin soup and 1/2 slice of grain bread. Good news is I feel no guilt and happy I listened to my body. If i reached for Tim Tams or crisps (which i dont even have in the house) that would be a different thing. As @GilyMary said, its about making healthy choices.

I think we need to eat when we're hungry and stop when we're full. Except on Fast days, obviously. It is also important to eat a wide range of different foods so that our bodies gets the nutrients we need. If we eliminate food groups from our diet, we are likely to crave food and unless we satisfy that craving, we will keep on eating lots of food without feeling satisfied. Did anyone see that repeat on SBS last night about Fat, I forget what it was called. She talked about the hormones which tell us we are hungry and other ones which tell us we have had enough. Apparently obese people's hormones are all wonky and they don't actually feel hungry and they never feel that they've had enough. Certainly I didn't know what hunger felt like until I started doing 5:2. Now I recognise it and it's different from emotional hunger. I think that has been a big bonus for me on the WOE. I now feel hungry and I also know better when I've had enough and can leave food on my plate. I don't know if this is on the topic or not!

Biologically, I think you get hungry because if you don't eat, you die. Obviously, you don't need to eat every time you're hungry to stay alive--hunger is not directly linked to a need for a particular nutrient for example. It's indirect, via several hormones (insulin, leptin, ghrelin, etc.), which respond to things like glucose levels in the blood.

Most of us will feel physiological hunger if our blood sugar drops lower than its usual fasting level. The level where this happens isn't an absolute--if your blood sugar is always higher than normal you can feel ravenous when your sugars drop to normal.

There is a setpoint involved, and some people's are very resistant to being reset. So you might have improved your fasting blood sugar to normal but feel much more hungry at that normal, because your body thinks your sugar level is too low.

If that is the case you can wait it out and eventually the set point will lower and you will feel normal at that improved lower fasting level.

Unfortunately, for some if us this process can take months,

This is a good read.. comes from a book that talks about FALSE versus REAL hunger. Low blood sugar is one of 9 reasons for "false hunger"

http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/ch.html
From Robert Chuckrow, The Intelligent Dieter’s Guide, Rising Mist Publications, Briarcliff Manor, NY, 1997.

excerpt

Ideally, hunger is the way we experience the body’s physiological need for energy and essential nutrients (carbohydrate, protein, fat, vitamins, minerals, etc.).

Unfortunately, many people experience the sensation of hunger for foods rich in energy even though they have ample reserves of energy-containing fat. Some people are always “hungry.”

In order not to be ruled by false hunger (hunger for unnecessary or harmful substances), it is necessary to do two things: (
1) learn to recognize the basis of your sensation of hunger and
(2) educate your body not to send the wrong messages.

False hunger falls into nine basic categories:
(1) low blood sugar;
(2) an irritation of the lining of the stomach;
(3) addictions
(4) the discomfort of the body in utilizing reserves;
(5) a desire for stimulation
(6) a genuine need for essential nutrients, expressed by a craving for food dilute in those nutrients;
(7) tiredness experienced as a need for food;
(8) thinking about, seeing, or smelling food; and
(9) habituation to regularity.

I can recognise nearly all of those 'hunger' desires in myself.

I would say that I can now recognise or control most of them.

I can now switch to fat burning much easier than I used to, so rarely get the low blood sugar. I am eating much more vegetables than I used and loving the taste of them too.

My biggest stumbling block is the desire for stimulation, I want to eat 'stuff' to be able to taste it, to get the feeling of satiety, to revel in the sheer pleasure of eating. Which is why and how I ended up the weight I am now.

Its a great list, I may just print it out to remind myself that what I am feeling isn't simple 'hunger'.

[janeg]

Interesting thread.
My observations and experiences- lost lots of weight due to ill health and genuinely never felt hungry BUT had 'crashes' that were rather scary.
Regained weight and still didn't get hungry
Got overweight and just enjoyed eating.
Decided to do 5:2 and was a bit worried about the 'crashes'
No crashes and hello, what's that strange feeling?
That , janeg, is feeling hungry. Good old belly rattling hunger. And it's good!
I'm sitting here and my tummy is really rumbling.
I am so hungry.
I know it will pass.
It is time for lunch. Not because the clock says so, but because I need fed!
Although, as I've bemoaned many times recently, I am so hungry, so often just now! The body is rebelling, but it is mind over matter, maybe.

My sis has "restarted" her 5:2 journey and im kind of restarting enthusiasm too. she is actually fasting on same 2 days a week with me.

anyway.. she says her stomach is growling a lot. i guess thats real hunger hey!

If like a child you are hungry for sweets, crisps or chocolate it's a false hunger if you are hungry for meat and veg or a salad then I feel it must be a true hunger. The body can play so many tricks on us. It certainly does not like to lose its hard earned fat store.

@Nessie,

That isn't always true. If a person is experiencing low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) they will get a strong craving for sugar. If that is the case, assuming the low blood sugar is not caused by a medication that lowers blood sugar possibly dangerously, taking as little as two grams of glucose (also listed as dextrose on candy labels) will stop that hunger in its tracks.

I had that happen yesterday. I became extremely hungry, but it wouldn't go away. We were out in the car, so I had a couple Altoids. Like magic within 10 minutes the crazy hunger dropped.

2 g of glucose will raise my blood sugar by 10 mg/dl, so 2 or 4 g is always enough to kick it out of the mild hypo range. A gram of glucose is only 4 calories.