The FastDay Forum

Hey all,

Thank you for the warm welcome to the forum.

I’ve been doing the diet now for several months and have lost over 2 stone, as an avid tea drinker I found that certain teas and blends helped to keep me feeling fuller on fast days and made life a bit easier when trying to eat healthier on the remaining days. I’m currently putting together a few teas specifically for 5:2 dieters so I was just wondering – is this something that would interest anyone?

Advertising opportunity, is it Max?

[janeg]

Hello Max
please can you read the important information and forum rules in the links at the top of the page. If you have joined the forum with the intention of advertising and selling we will have to stop your membership.
However, if you wish to contribute to the forum discussions about intermittent fasting using your personal experiences you are more than welcome to join in.

Hey guys

I promise I'm not trying to advertise or sell anything here, I'm just another dieter who also happens to be obsessed with tea!

Yes, as long as you aren't selling anything, I think that would be great! I'm an avid tea drinker myself!

An interesting topic as a certain amount of green tea daily is supposed to increase metabolism. I used to enjoy green tea with jasmine about 9 years ago - but now it just doesn't agree with my digestive system - I prefer to drink boiled water. So yes, if you have any suggestions then it would be nice to have a choice. As for making you feel fuller, I always drink water if I think I feel hungry as quite often it is thirst and not hunger.

[carorees]

An interesting topic as a certain amount of green tea daily is supposed to increase metabolism. I used to enjoy green tea with jasmine about 9 years ago - but now it just doesn't agree with my digestive system - I prefer to drink boiled water. So yes, if you have any suggestions then it would be nice to have a choice. As for making you feel fuller, I always drink water if I think I feel hungry as quite often it is thirst and not hunger.

It's the caffeine in it that increases the metabolism by a miniscule amount. Not worth drinking if you don't like it!

Steve Boutcher, in his book "20 x 3 - eliminate your belly fat in an hour a week", speaks about green tea containing a catechin called epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) which acts by decreasing the breakdown of adrenaline & noradrenaline (epinephrine & norepinephrine if you're American), which are responsible for increasing fat-burning after HIIT. He's apparently doing studies where people have green tea capsules before HIIT. He also talks about caffeine blocking the adenosine receptors in fat cells that block fat release, and also also elevating sympathetic nervous activity, and thus adrenaline & noradrenaline.

As a side issue, I don't understand the effect of stress on fat burning - it seems that acute stress (adrenaline & noradrenaline) is good, whereas chronic stress (cortisol) is bad? Also while I'm here, growth hormone release seems to be good for building muscle, but I also believe that too much makes you insulin resistant - seems a bit paradoxical? Can anyone shed some light? @Carorees?

[carorees]

I'm not convinced that green tea in normal quantities has any effect on weight loss. See this study finding that the compound you mention @jools7 had no significant effects on weight loss or anything else. But they did find it appeared safe! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299662
It seems that for every positive study you can find a negative one.

As peebles says there are very few well conducted studies in the field of nutrition. As far as HGH goes, I'd not heard about it causing insulin resistance.

Cortisol and GH have opposite effects on fat burning: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10690893

thanks @carorees! - hmmm, but what I remember from medical school is that one of the signs of acromegaly (usually from a pituitary tumour secreting HGH) is type 2 diabetes. Is this a dose-related thing then I wonder? Like physiological levels are helpful for burning fat & building muscle, but pharmacological or pathological levels have adverse effects?? sorry to be dim!

[carorees]

@jools7

This paper examined GH and IGF1 in acromegaly and found it's IGF1 rather than GH that is associated with insulin resistance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22562529

Then there's this review that I can't see the full paper but it looks like cortisol and GH together have an effect. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23510125

Since GH opposes the action of insulin in terms of promoting lipolysis (fat mobilisation) whereas insulin causes fat storage, then it makes sense that when GH is high, a sudden influx of glucose would not be disposed of as quickly as when it's low. This also is borne out by a sluggish response to glucose after fasting and so I think it's wise to break one's fast with a low GI food as often as possible.

I expect you're right that in non disease states the effects are different to acromegaly etc. Normally GH would only be released in high amounts when insulin is low (fasting) but that's not the case in acromegaly. The pattern of GH release in fasting is that it builds up over the days so in a 24 hour fast levels are not especially high. So I would hope that on balance we improve insulin resistance by fasting!

oh, how interesting @carorees! Yes, pity about the second paper. But the first one is an eye-opener for me. And yes, I do have to be careful with carbs the morning after a fast. And that's why my glucose level goes up mildly (high 6- low 7) immediately after a session of HIT. It goes down rapidly again though - 3.9 before dinner last night! Also interesting how hormones do seem to "travel in packs" - by which I mean, cortisol and IGF-1 and insulin have similar effects, whereas HGH seems in the other direction - probably a bit of a simplistic way to look at it though.

any comments on my acute vs chronic stress idea?

Anecdotal I know and may just be coincidence, but my loss seems to have sped up since I started drinking green tea religiously on fast days, but I hate the taste of just plain green tea. Went to T2 to browse (for the benefit of non-Aussies, premium tea boutique recently acquired by Unilever). Place is a mega rip off ($13.50 per 100g), but they have a convenient sample table that you can pick up and sniff. Discovered sencha vanilla (vanilla flavoured green tea).

Ended up grabbing a bag from an eBay seller in Germany (came out at $20 for 400g delivered to Australia) though since discovered they have an actual website (links to both below). I have it very strong and sweetened with stevia, can barely taste the bitter green tea, almost tastes like vanilla cookies, can drink it all day.

TedE

Website: http://www.neuteeland.de/p3/index.php?i ... &id_lang=6
eBay store: http://stores.ebay.com.au/Bucher-Tee-und-Afrika

Good topic!
I have found that licorice tea gives a good flavour punch for me mid afternoon on fast days( she says sipping her licorice tea)
No idea about other benefits but it helps keep me satisfied over my 3-5pm uncomfortable period.
Also interesting about the vanilla @ TedE
I love Twinings Camomile, Vanilla and Honey tea so might look up your suggestion.
Yes, I do have a sweet tooth!

[Debs]

Thanks @TedE, I shall have a look in T2. I recently had some really nice pomegranate tea and like you have trouble with green tea, but the vanilla one sounds nice. Yes, they are pricey so thanks very much for the link. I shall test in T2 and buy elsewhere!