The FastDay Forum

I was going to write a blog entry on today's progress, but I have decided to write there here to see if anyone can come up with any ideas as to what could be going on with my weight. As all of you know who have read my recent posts, I have been prone to some very big weight gains from one day to the next and there was a good example of that last week when I gained 6 pounds in a day.

I had already known that this was due to water weight and that indeed, was confirmed both by a number of people on this forum and the subsequent results thereafter which saw me lose 7 pounds within the two days leading up to Monday. However, I have eaten a lot of carbs on those days where I have had those big weight gains and a number of people on this forum have suggested that an increase in carbs generates a large amount of water retention which could account for those big weight gains.

However, the latest results for this morning seem to be showing that it is not just an increase in carbs which can lead to water retention and hence, a big weight gain from one day to the next. Now to get the picture behind that, I had a low calorie day on Sunday which saw me lose 1.5kg and my fasting day on Monday then saw me lose a further 1.7kg. I then lost a further 0.2kg on the following day as I decided to tread very carefully with that being the first feeding day after fasting day.

My carb intake was very low on Tuesday, but my protein intake was a little bit higher than desired, with my fat intake a bit lower than desired. Because of that, I did an experiment to see what would actually happen if I kept to a low carb intake, but increased my fat intake. I started off yesterday with two slices of turkey bacon two scrambled eggs, an apple and a glass of milk. That is no different from my usual breakfast but from lunchtime, I decided to change things a bit. At lunchtime, I replaced the meat that I usually have (to reduce the protein intake a little bit, down to medium levels for the day) with various types of cheese, but I still had some salad with that as well as small orange and glass of milk. The cheese would add some fat content, and I also had some salad dressing.

Furthermore, all of the milk that I am drinking is full fat milk. I did do some overeating in the afternoon in the form of a bag of salted cashew nuts and a bag of salted and smoked almonds. That would have added some more fat and some fibre, but I still wasn't adding any extra carbs with that. For my evening meal, I had a pork chop with some a mushroom and vegetable stir-fry. Instead of grilling the chop, I fried it in groundnut oil (I still can't get coconut oil and so, groundnut oil was the closest which I could get to that) with the stir-fry also being done in groundnut oil. That would have added a lot of fat and as a dessert, I had some blueberries and redcurrants with some double cream and that was washed down with full fat milk.

After all of that, I weighed myself this morning an discovered that my weight had gone up by 1.3kg from yesterday's value of 70.2kg to 71.5kg this morning. That is not as big as some of the weight gains which I have had with eating a lot of carbs, but that is still rather a big weight gain, especially considering that I was continued to maintain a low carb intake. That means that there must be something else at play which is causing those big weight gains since that can't be caused solely by an increase in body fat. I'm not going to dispute the fact that this is probably caused by water retention for whatever reason. What I would therefore like to know is whether any of you out there have any ideas as to what could be causing that water retention, especially since carbs aren't playing a part here.

Morning John. Based on what you ate, I'd take a stab at water retention caused by the salt you ate (in the turkey bacon, nuts, cheese plus any added salt you put on your protein). I bet if you step away from the salt today, the water will go.

The reason why I have been quite liberal with my salt intake was in response to a reply to one of my posts about blood pressure, where it was stated that reducing my salt intake probably wouldn't solve the problems which I was having at that time with my blood pressure. That indeed has been the case, as my blood pressure has been better since I switched to 6:1, despite my higher salt intake.

For today though, I won't be eating any nuts and I have also skipped breakfast (I am about to go out to my final step class of 2013) and that means that I won't be eating any turkey bacon today. However, that still leaves the problem with the cheese because I can't think of any alternatives to that which I could have for lunch, that would keep the protein intake down and increase the fat intake. Any ideas?

Having said that though, yesterday's weight loss came despite the fact that I had still eaten my turkey bacon at breakfast time. That means that I can get away with eating a certain amount of these things which means that eating that cheese at lunchtime might actually be OK.

You could go veggie for lunch and have a giant salad with a good helping of olive oil. If you wanted to add a little bit of protein - any tins of tuna or salmon in your cupboard? Eggs?

Hi, I'm no expert, but my 2 cents is that nuts in and of themselves aren't really a problem. It was the salt. Cheese tends to have salt, but if you aren't getting a lot elsewhere, it shouldn't cause a problem. I guess I don't get the worry about protein as long as you are getting leafy greens and non-glycemic veggies and berries. I think that is a pretty "clean" way of eating and usually leaves me feeling good and not at all bloated or weighted down with water. Good luck!

The point that I was making earlier is that nuts contain a certain amount of fats which is what I am trying to increase in order to curb the cravings for carbs that would otherwise kick again at some point. That is why I agree that I should continue to eat more nuts (despite the high number of calories which they contain), though probably not the salted variety.

Furthermore, on the day that I last lost weight (which was the day leading up to yesterday's weigh-in), I had eaten a stick of Austrian smoked cheese in addition to my three slices of turkey bacon and yet, I still lost weight despite that. So, that shows that salty items aren't really a problem when they are taken in moderation. Clearly, there must have been an awful lot salt in those nuts that I ate yesterday because I can't think of anything which could have resulted in that water retention which in turn, led to that weight gain.

Finally, the only concern that I was having with protein was the fact that it has been taking up the biggest part of my calorie intake whereas this WOE is showing me that most of my calorie intake should be taken up with saturated fats (assuming a low carb intake) with only a moderate amount of protein. As my breakfasts have been containing a lot of protein (in the form of my scrambled eggs and bacon) and since I'm also getting some protein with my evening meal (in the form of meat or fish), I therefore felt that it would be a good idea to reduce my protein intake a little bit whilst increasing my intake of saturated fats.

That in turn was my main reason for replacing the meat which I was previously having for lunch with some cheese which after all, also contains a certain amount of fats.

I've been beaten to it as I was going to suggest salt. I once gained weight after a fast day because I'd hit the Bovril too often and I don't normally eat a lot of salt!

How many calories do you reckon to be eating on feast days, as a matter of interest? You seem to be getting through a lot of food and without many decent intervals - perhaps your exercise requirements are much greater than mine - what is your current TDEE?
I was going to suggest salt level as the reason for variability, but not suggesting that you cut salt out, just accept that your true weight is reflected in the higher rather the lower values that you have been seeing. You seem to need a certain level of salt to keep your blood pressure on track.

The other thing in play is your gut, or the contents thereof. What is going through your system can add 2kg on to your 'empty' weight.
Give the low carb a full week of testing, that will then allow you to get an average, which will take into account when you are 'empty', pre-fast, post-fast and all other variables.
I too have days when I can put on 6lb and still lose that weight overnight. As long as your trend is downward and you are eating within your TDEE on normal days I wouldn't worry about daily shifts in weight.

I am a proponent of low carb as a weight loss tool. You don't need carbs when you are overweight, that's what your fat is for.

My TDEE is 1875 cals/day for a sedentary lifestyle, 2149 cals/day for light activity and 2422 cals/day for moderate activity. I normally do two gym sessions per week where I am burning about 500 cals with each session. I also do three fitness classes per week where the calorie burn will vary depending on what I am doing on that day, and that leaves two rest days per day where my TDEE for that day will be the same as the sedentary value.

The TDEE that is calculated is however, the average for a whole and so, that would imply that I can eat an average of 2422 cals/day over the course of each week with my current activity level. However, the fact that I have maintained my weight at each Monday morning official weigh-in shows that I appear to judged my overall calorie intake correctly as my main aim for now, is to maintain my current weight rather than to lose any more weight.

However, that doesn't take anything away from the daily variations as my actual TDEE for any given day will vary depending on my activities for that day. On Tuesday for example, I did a big gym session where I burned a lot of calories, and that might have contributed a little bit towards me losing weight on that day, since my resulting TDEE would have been higher on that day as a result.

Yesterday, I had an Aquafit class where my calorie burn was still higher than what it would be on a rest day, but not as high as what it is when I'm burning extra calories in the gym. That lower calorie burn would have resulted in a lower TDEE for that day and yet, I had actually increased my calorie intake for that day. I can therefore see how that would have made a small contribution to the resulting weight gain, though not on the scale of the weight gain that I got.

The only other consideration in that case, is the fact that I always lose a lot of weight (usually 1.7kg) with each fasting day, as the body contains less food and water. On the following day after each recent fasting day, I have been very careful about my calorie intake and that in resulting in me either maintaining the weight that I have go to after each fasting day, or losing a little bit more weight (as was the case this week).

That has happened though, despite the fact that I have always still increased my calorie intake on that day, although I have been very careful with that. That increase in food intake should in theory, result in more food in my system and therefore, a weight gain. However, it may well be that I have been so careful with my calorie intake on those days, that the increase in the volume of food in my system hasn't been enough to cancel out the water loss that is still happening, and that is what results in me continuing to lose more weight.

It would then only be when my food intake was increased further (as what was the case yesterday), that the body would recover its water staores, thus causing my weight to begin its recovery towards its pre-fasted level.

Why would you care? A 1.5 (or even 2) kg in variation of water and/or food/remnants of food seems 'natural'. As long as your average (say 7 days) weight is more or less stable (within 1 kg) when on maintenance or going down, I can't see the problem.

Why would you care? A 1.5 (or even 2) kg in variation of water and/or food/remnants of food seems 'natural'. As long as your average (say 7 days) weight is more or less stable (within 1 kg) when on maintenance or going down, I can't see the problem.

It's not that I'm worried about that, or even care about that. I was just curious to get some of the inside info on how these variations occur so that I can understand that a bit better.

As a scientist I can understand (and share) the curiosity, but I also know that there is always a level of variation that is 'just happening' and thus can't be explained.

The one thing about science that always amazes me is that even the best scientists in the world can be proved wrong (even the great Albert Einstein isn't immune from that). A scientist will be able to come up with a good theory which forms part of the school and education curriculum to such an extent that when we are first learning about that,we are taught about that as though that is the actual fact behind what is happening in our universe.

However, there will always be some further scientific research afterwards and with the further resulting advances in technology which comes with that, these facts are often proved to be wrong by some other discovery which occurs sometime afterwards. The best example of that was where I had been taught in school that Pluto was a planet, only for scientists to then come to the much later conclusion that Pluto isn't a planet after all. In addition to that, there is also an awful lot that science haven't yet been able to discover or understand and I'm guessing that the full inner workings of daily variations in weight probably forms part of that. At the same time though, scientists are always looking for answers to those unknown questions and it is the continuous search for these answers which makes it such an interesting subject (although I am actually not a scientist myself).

There are a fair few carbs in apples, oranges and blueberries.... all that sugar, I'm afraid..... and there are quite a few carbs in full-fat milk too. I would suggest you log everything you ate on MFP just to see the carb content. There are various opinions on what level of carb intake constitutes "low" - some will say under 150g, others 100g or even 50g. When you start Atkins you keep your carbs at under 20g for the first couple of weeks!

This is quite a useful chart.....

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/press/th ... z2kwmupjR1