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I just came here to post a link to this article :-)
Thanks Debs and MaryAnn..like you said,Debs, quite balanced ...and some interesting replies x
thanks for sharing :-)
Yes, interesting replies. Such emotive languages from the "anti"s. Fasting is "starving" and eating a nice big meal is "binging". Sorry, I don't do either. I postpone and then I have enough to eat.
Some of the comments are simply annoying. It drives me crazy that some people think any form of fasting is a short cut, the easy way and that we binge on junk food the other days. Would it be easier to have a balance diet every day with smaller portions ? Well, doh, thank you for suggesting something I am too stupid to have though about before :doh: I am sorry but no I don't binge on junk food, don't eat junk food at all actually, except 2 squares of chocolate with my lunch coffee, (is that junk food btw ?), cook everything from scratch and want to have some pasta and pizza from time to time and not only lean meat and steam vegs.

And for those who think that fasting is a walk in the park and doesn't need some willpower, I suggest that they try for a few weeks and THEN give their opinion on it.

Sorry, it made me kind of mad.... back to my old self again.... :wink:
barbarita wrote: Yes, interesting replies. Such emotive languages from the "anti"s. Fasting is "starving" and eating a nice big meal is "binging". Sorry, I don't do either. I postpone and then I have enough to eat.


Thanks @barbarita for that excellent turn of phrase - I suffer a bit with 5:2 haters at work and I'm definitely going to use "I postpone and then I have enough to eat" on them - that sums it up so perfectly!
The idea advanced at the end of the article, that muscle consumed by fasting will come back stronger is UTTER B-S. Sorry. But there are plenty of dieters in the world, especially those who dieted with low fat/low protein diets who lose significant muscle during their diets. And follow up studies only show that they pack on more FAT going forward, not muscle.

Losing lean muscle tissue is very bad for dieters. We know a lot about starvation from studies of people who have survived famines and mostly what we find is that their children and grandchildren have altered metabolisms as a result of the parent's fasting/starvation.
I've read the same @peebles and it bothers me,coz i'm sure its happened to me and then come back as fat ( due to years of yoyo dieting) but i also read somewhere yesterday that the body won't use muscle for fuel if you ensure you don't go more than 300-500 cals below your TDEE on most days x
I think this article highlights how good fasting every other day would be. For me, only fasting 2 days a week is not enough and now I only have two meals a day anyway. I haven't weighed yet...but I feel a lot slimmer than I did at this same stage last year. Think I've found the right balance :starving:
CandiceMarie wrote: ... i also read somewhere yesterday that the body won't use muscle for fuel if you ensure you don't go more than 300-500 cals below your TDEE on most days x


This is not true. What determines whether you will burn muscle is very simple. If you don't take in enough carbs from eating your body still needs glucose to maintain blood sugar at a safe level. It turns to stored glycogen, the form in which the body stores carbohydrate. Glycogen is found in your liver and muscles. Most people have about 2 days worth stored, but this varies from person to person. If you are eating low carb, you have already burnt off most or all of your available stored glycogen.

Once the available glycogen is gone, your liver can transform protein into glucose, and does, at a ratio of 58%. That means 58% of the protein turns into glucose. If you have eaten enough protein, it will convert your dietary protein into glucose. If you haven't, your muscles start to break down to supply the needed protein. You don't get to choose which muscle, and the heart muscle is among those that are broken down.

This is one reason why people die of anorexia, even after they are refed, because they damage their hearts.

This is also why it is really important that the calories you eat on a fast day include enough protein to both repair muscle (the usual daily protein requirment), and the extra protein needed to replace glucose if you have depleted your glycogen.

Prolonged fasting---those four day fasts will deplete glygocen completely and MUST consume muscle too, because once the glycogen is gone your body has two choices, turn muscle into glucose or have blood sugar drop to 20 mg/dl, a level where you go unconscious and can die.
peebles wrote: The idea advanced at the end of the article, that muscle consumed by fasting will come back stronger is UTTER B-S. Sorry. But there are plenty of dieters in the world, especially those who dieted with low fat/low protein diets who lose significant muscle during their diets. And follow up studies only show that they pack on more FAT going forward, not muscle.

Losing lean muscle tissue is very bad for dieters. We know a lot about starvation from studies of people who have survived famines and mostly what we find is that their children and grandchildren have altered metabolisms as a result of the parent's fasting/starvation.

I got the impression they were hoping muscle stem cells work like hematopoetic stem cells. It is possible that fasting will have a different effect on muscle stem cells than other forms of dieting, but I wouldn't hold out hope that lost muscle restores itself and then some. Best to maintain it by strength training during (and after) weight loss.
peebles wrote:
CandiceMarie wrote: ... i also read somewhere yesterday that the body won't use muscle for fuel if you ensure you don't go more than 300-500 cals below your TDEE on most days x


This is not true. What determines whether you will burn muscle is very simple. If you don't take in enough carbs from eating your body still needs glucose to maintain blood sugar at a safe level. It turns to stored glycogen, the form in which the body stores carbohydrate. Glycogen is found in your liver and muscles. Most people have about 2 days worth stored, but this varies from person to person. If you are eating low carb, you have already burnt off most or all of your available stored glycogen.

Once the available glycogen is gone, your liver can transform protein into glucose, and does, at a ratio of 58%. That means 58% of the protein turns into glucose. If you have eaten enough protein, it will convert your dietary protein into glucose. If you haven't, your muscles start to break down to supply the needed protein. You don't get to choose which muscle, and the heart muscle is among those that are broken down.

This is one reason why people die of anorexia, even after they are refed, because they damage their hearts.

This is also why it is really important that the calories you eat on a fast day include enough protein to both repair muscle (the usual daily protein requirment), and the extra protein needed to replace glucose if you have depleted your glycogen.

Prolonged fasting---those four day fasts will deplete glygocen completely and MUST consume muscle too, because once the glycogen is gone your body has two choices, turn muscle into glucose or have blood sugar drop to 20 mg/dl, a level where you go unconscious and can die.



Always appreciate your attention to technical detail @Peebles. thanks

when you said

This is also why it is really important that the calories you eat on a fast day include enough protein to both repair muscle (the usual daily protein requirment), and the extra protein needed to replace glucose if you have depleted your glycogen
.

What is "enough" ... grams/ounces on a fast day if you are doing say 500 calorie fast day.
@Juliana.Rivers,

The usual advice is .that you need to eat .8 g of protein per kg of body weight. If you are training heavily you would need more, but few of us train that heavily. (NOTE THAT I CORRECTED THE ORIGINAL POST THAT WA MISSING THE PERIOD BEFORE THE 8.)

There is roughly 6 g of protein in an ounce of protein rich food. This holds true of muscle meat, hard chese, and 1 egg. I love those FAGE yogurts because they each contain 18 g of protein for only 100 calories, which makes it possible to get the protein I need pretty easily. Otherwise, it's tough.

I have downloaded several 5:2 diet books over the past few months and noticed that they all were filled with recipes very low in protein. But that is probably because it is so tough to put together a very low calorie recipe that is filling and also full of protein.
I would also be interested.
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