The FastDay Forum

[wildmissus]

@MaryAnn, could it be then that 'diet fatigue' is the turning point where we either go on and succeed or fall of the wagon.

I have been fasting for a while - 2 years, I lost the majority of my weight in the first year and not a lot changed last year. I am used to seeing myself with my weight loss but when I look in the mirror I still see myself as fat and wobbly. I am used to the way I feel now so have forgotten the aches and pains, the chaffing, the discomfort, etc form carrying the extra 30+lbs. A kind of body dysmorphia I suppose. This is something that @Nessie and I discussed the last time we met. She sees me as tall and slim and I see her as petite and slim but we both struggle to see that in ourselves. There is also the reality that losing weight is just what it is, it doesn't change your whole life, ie. not all my problems have gone away just because I have lost weight.

Thank you for all your responses, I knew this wasn't just about me!

Firstly I'm going to start with some of my stats - some of you will be bored, some will be interested and most of you will be shocked!
Very apple shaped
Heaviest ever weight - 14st 3lb (199lbs)
Weight I started fasting 7/1/2013 - 13st 9lbs (191lbs)
Weight at beginning of 2014 - 11st 10lb (164lbs)
Weight at beginning of 2015 - (11st 8lb) (162lbs)
Lowest fasting weight July 2014 - 11st (154lbs)
Target Weight 10st 10lb (150lbs)

TDEE from my tracker based on moderate activity - 2202
Therefore 2200 x 7 = 15400 calories per week to maintain my weight.
Lets say I'm putting on half a pound a week, ie 1700 cals.
So 17100 calories per week.
I zero cal liquid fast twice a week.
So my daily calorie intake is around 3420!!!!!!!

I'm not surprised that my daily calorie intake is nearly three and a half thousand calories but I am disappointed with myself.

My breakfast is usually porridge (300 cals?), lunch is often homemade soup with either good bread and butter or cheese and crackers (700cals?), evening meal is often a Hairy Dieters meal (700 cals?). Total meals = 1700 cals. The other half is coming from 'treats' - biscuits, crisps, chocolate eaten with my meals and in between.

.
I'm not eating because I'm hungry, I'm not even eating because I have cravings. I think I'm eating to keep myself full all the time. I am finding the evenings of my fast days can be quite difficult and I think that might be because I am eating too much on my non fast days at the moment. I also think that it can take 2 - 5 years at maintaining our new weights to 'naturally' accept and eat to the new lower TDEE.

@wildmissus

I just reread this earlier post. Have you considered breaking away from the zero calorie liquid fasts completely and going for the 500ish calories a week two times a week. Were you always doing liquid fasts for your fast days? I am hearing you want to be full all the time and wondering if liquid fasting is doing you a disservice. (just my initial thoughts, im no expert)

On a similar tangent would you consider doing 3 days of 500 calorie fasting each week and thus adopting 4:3 instead of 5:2

Would you consider not eating either the crisps, chocolates or biscuits on non fast days. or cutting drastically to the point of just maybe a treat once or twice on a non fast day.

WOW Wildmissus, I could have written this exact thread.
I too started 5:2 in January 2013. Over 2013 I lost 23lbs. Over the whole of 2014 I lost 2lbs.
I was really struggling to lose anything at all last year even though I was sticking to the fasting. My problem was the same as yours, treats started creeping in on feed days or I'd go on holiday for a week gain a few lbs and it would take me a month to get rid of them meaning I never built up a regular decent weight loss, I was just sort of yo-yoing. This would have been great if I had been maintaining but I still have another 18/20lbs to lose.
I dabbled in 4:3 early last year but it made no difference, I took a small break from IF; no difference, I reduced from 400/500cals to liquid only fasts; no difference. I started to believe in set weight points TBH but the truth is I love food and I overate on my feast days thinking I'd undo the damage on my next fast (which I did do but minimising the damage done on feast days obviously means maintaining rather than losing weight)!

The thing that has given me the kick up the backside was the Christmas Challenge. I had a small, short-term goal to aim for. I was pretty sure I wasn't going to meet the goal (and I didn't) but what I needed was something to focus on besides the fact that I'm going to probably fast for the rest of my life and my weight was barely shifting. It's really hard to keep that mojo going without a little something extra to spur us on. This year I really want to lose this last 19lbs so my first target is to get rid of 8/10lbs before my birthday in early May. It's a small but easily achievable goal but only if I really keep an eye on my feast days and don't go back to last year's habits. I went back to 4:3 in October for the Christmas challenge as I feel it gives me a bit more control over my eating and there are only 4 rather than 5 days a week where I have the chance to overeat and if I miss one fast when life gets in the way I don't feel bad as I know I'm still doing 5:2.
Good luck Wildmissus, I know we can get there

[wildmissus]

@Juliana.Rivers, I hadn't considered going back to 500cal fasting but I am seriously thinking about it now for two reasons. Firstly, I wonder if eating on fast days (which will require control) will give me back a bit of control on non fast days. Secondly, more and more I cheat on my supposed liquid fasts - yesterday I had 6 oatcakes and a milky hot chocolate which I have just added up and equals 503 calories! I've just been looking at the recipes on the fastday site and I'm loving some of them. I love soup and I think a big bowl of low/no carb soup would be much better for me than oatcakes! I also think that I might not need to eat the minute I get out of bed the following day. Next week I'm going to give it a go Mon, Wed, Fri remembering to stop eating at about 8pm the evening before. Back to basics!!!

@JennyH10, I was really unsure about starting this thread as I didn't want it to come across as being negative. I'm so glad I did as the information, ideas and other peoples experiences has been so helpful and has motivated me to keep going especially as I know that fasting IS for me - for the health benefits and the weight loss. I did the first couple of challenges but I failed both of them and that left me feeling down so I stopped joining in but I have just given myself a final target of 150lbs which means I ONLY need to lose 11lbs and that is very doable. I met up with @Nessie today and it is so helpful to me to be able to talk to someone about fasting in such a constructive way.

I will overcome this hurdle and I will lose some more of my dangerous belly fat .

[carieoates]

I have to agree that going back to 5.2 is a must.
Just look at @carorees. She is the 5.2 pin up/cover girl whatever you'd like to call her. Show's that its a winning combination.

That's great @wildmissus! We' ll all be gunning for you next week
I' m glad you started this thread - no use pretending this WOE is all hearts and flowers when it so isnt for lots of us..i think its probably just the best choice out of a big bunch of stuff we've already done - time and again for many of us!
Last week was my first really disciplined week for a long time..what i like about 5:2 is that even after one week of following the rules to the absolute letter i feel so much better. Tho i can't have lost much fat, ive shed so much water that i feel loads lighter and tighter! Instead of feeling like a big old overfilled hot water bottle x

Interesting sideline from this thread is the thing @wildmissus said about how you still see yourself even after losing weight. I have had a lot of people say how small I am now - have even been described as 'tiny' and my brain just won't go there at all - in my head I can see I've lost weight but not the way I seem to look now to other people. And 9.7 ain't 'tiny' by ANY stretch of the imagination

Thank you @wildmissus for creating this thread!

I joined this site and decided to try this WOE because of diet fatigue. I've lost and gained a LOT of weight in the last few years. I'm down 90 lbs and have 50 more to go (approximately). I will lose weight for about 6 months at a time on any given plan, as long as I can eat normal food and I track what I eat. I can track calories or points, it doesn't matter.

Perhaps, since this is only my second day I shouldn't offer advice, but since I'm a busybody, I will. forgive me if it's out of place.
You mentioned at first that you find yourself eating too much on feed days. I know this system doesn't require you to count calories on feed days, but it does provide a TDEE so that you have a guideline. Personally, I don't have "normal" eating. If I don't count calories, I eat everything I see. This is why I gain weight back; I stop tracking. Could you try counting calories on your feed days, and see if it helps? There is so much evidence for this approach! (I'm a data junky.)

[wildmissus]

@loversghost, I wonder if our minds will catch up with our bodies eventually. Every now and then at pilates I will be next to another woman who I always considered slimmer than me but it might just be possible that I am slimmer than her now, maybe!

@Lizardline, any ideas and advice are appreciated. I am resisting counting calories , quite a few people have suggested it but it is tedious and time consuming - yes, I know I am making excuses. I'm going to see how I get on over the next couple of weeks but do accept that I probably do need to get myself back on MFP.

@Lizardline, any ideas and advice are appreciated. I am resisting counting calories , quite a few people have suggested it but it is tedious and time consuming - yes, I know I am making excuses. I'm going to see how I get on over the next couple of weeks but do accept that I probably do need to get myself back on MFP.[/quote]

For me, when I resist counting calories, it's usually because I DON'T want to think about what I'm snarfing down my gullet. I don't think it takes too much time on MFP, since I have it on my phone and my computer at work and home, but the thought that I HAVE to track something makes me have second thoughts about whether I want to eat/order it, and that is part of why it's so effective. I also order better in restaurants, and frankly choose to go out less, which is great financially. I do take planned breaks - for me, when I leave the country, I stop counting. Of course, this is just once a year!

Hi again @wildmissus, this really is a great thread, and good on you for starting it.

I am wondering if you would consider a low-carb approach, even just for a short while?

Although I have resisted this approach, because I do love sweet things and don't want to give them up, I am actually trying to go low carb for at least a week. This is partly as an antidote to the very high carb 3 weeks I just had while on holiday, but also to hopefully reduce the desire to eat more than I need (because the science is convincing around the effect of eating sugary carbs often leading to eating more of them).

I am also doing 4:3 just for the short term too, to shift the pounds I put on while away (I am not brave enough to weigh myself yet, but my clothes told me I had put on weight, as I must have done given the quantities I consumed).

I have only been trying low-carb for 4 days, but it does seem to be working. When I say low-carb, for me this has really been not eating anything with significant amounts of added sugar, not eating grains, and reducing my intake of starchy vegetables. I have reduced my fruit intake, but would need to stop eating fruit altogether to reduce my carbs to 50g a day. This I would find difficult, as I feel the need for something sweet to counterbalance the taste of the amount of fat I am now eating!!

I am also eating more protein than ideal, but it is the only way I can eat less carbs and still reach my TDEE. I just don't fancy eating the high fat products such as cream and sour cream without carb foods to go with them!!

I still felt hungry on the first day of my low-carb regime, but on the second day, no problems. I would love to have a chocolate or something sugary (high % cocoa dark chocolate is allowed, but I haven't bought any yet and don't really like it either) but the desire to eat these is nowhere near as great as it is once I actually start eating them!

Now I don't intend to give up sugary and other high carb foods, but I am hoping that a short break from them will help break the pattern of overeating on non-fast days. (I do realise that once I reintroduce the carbs, then my weight is likely to go up a bit, but I will deal with that at the time! And I will have to take care that I don't just start overeating again - though if I do, I will just go back to banning sugary carbs again for a while!!)

For the first time since starting 5:2, I have also calculated the calorie, carb, and protein content of all I am eating. I resisted this in the past because it does take time, but I do have the time and I am interested in the nutritional content of whet I am eating. I will only do this for a short while though.

I do tend to be an 'all or nothing' type of person - which is one reason why 5:2 worked for me rather than a conventional calorie reduction diet, but I now need to find additional strategies to help me manage the 'all' part!!!

My apologies that this has been an essay and so much about me, but I am hoping that my experience may be useful.

Again, best wishes for whatever strategy you chose!

Btw, given this has been all about me, I will add a comment about the perception of one's body. When I was overweight, I didn't see myself this way (self-deception??). But when I look at photos of me at that time, I now do look overweight. When I see myself in reflections now, I do look reasonably slim. But (and forgive the image this creates!!) when I am sitting naked on the loo and the tummy still flops over the top of the fat thighs, I don't look slim at all!!!!

@Juliana.Rivers, I hadn't considered going back to 500cal fasting but I am seriously thinking about it now for two reasons. Firstly, I wonder if eating on fast days (which will require control) will give me back a bit of control on non fast days. Secondly, more and more I cheat on my supposed liquid fasts - yesterday I had 6 oatcakes and a milky hot chocolate which I have just added up and equals 503 calories! I've just been looking at the recipes on the fastday site and I'm loving some of them. I love soup and I think a big bowl of low/no carb soup would be much better for me than oatcakes! I also think that I might not need to eat the minute I get out of bed the following day. Next week I'm going to give it a go Mon, Wed, Fri remembering to stop eating at about 8pm the evening before. Back to basics!!!

@JennyH10, I was really unsure about starting this thread as I didn't want it to come across as being negative. I'm so glad I did as the information, ideas and other peoples experiences has been so helpful and has motivated me to keep going especially as I know that fasting IS for me - for the health benefits and the weight loss. I did the first couple of challenges but I failed both of them and that left me feeling down so I stopped joining in but I have just given myself a final target of 150lbs which means I ONLY need to lose 11lbs and that is very doable. I met up with @Nessie today and it is so helpful to me to be able to talk to someone about fasting in such a constructive way.

I will overcome this hurdle and I will lose some more of my dangerous belly fat .

@wildmissus... im glad you said what you did as i was scared i might have put foot in it and upset but that's not the case and i do really believe that eating the 500 calories on a fast day with real fresh food is the way to go. There are many successful liquid fasters here on the forum and hats off to you guys and gals but I just couldnt do it. M

My sis is still in the overweight category and doing 4:3 with me and she says if i couldnt eat at all for 2 days a week as part of this WOL she wouldnt do it at all.

Hopefully you will feel more satiated on a fast day and on the next day not panic eat as you are ravenous. And.. if this good fasting happens 3 days a week not 2 then it must hopefully get you focussed.

wildmissus, do you have a buddy on the online forum. There is the buddy thread fastonbury-glamping-grounds-f34/fast-diet-buddies-tent-is-now-up-t11260.html and the buddies that have formed have said good things.

[wildmissus]

@Sassy1, you made me laugh at the loo/belly comment, I'm the same, actually when I stand up I can't see the bit below my belly - I'm sure you know the bit I mean! After looking at the recipes on this site I have realised how I have got stuck in a rut with my meals. There a lots of ideas there that I'd quite happily eat on a non fast day and because they are designed for fast days many of them are low carb. In the past I have tried on two occassions to do the 'Ducan Attack' which involved eating only protein for 3 days which worked very well for me - losing 5lbs in those three days but I really want to focus now on eating well 80% of the time. I know that I do need to go more towards low carb/low GI, now I just need to get my finger out and get on with it. Oh, I have just found a new product in the supermarket from Tilda which is a microwave pouch of brown rice and quinoa (like Uncle Ben's). I like both brown rice and quinoa so this will hopefully be a quick and easy solution on non fast days when I feel the need for carbs.

@Juliana.Rivers, I'm always open to suggestions and I'll try anything once (almost anything!) and sometimes seeing things in black and white, staring you in the face is the way to get a kick up the backside and this thread has certainly done that - in a good way. I haven't looked at the buddy thread, I'll do that tomorrow as I should really be in bed!

@MaryAnn, could it be then that 'diet fatigue' is the turning point where we either go on and succeed or fall of the wagon.

I'm guessing it is something we'll have to struggle with continuously at least for awhile. Maybe diet fatigue is more a rough patch we have to get through. I suppose it could be a place to fall off the wagon, but let's not do that!

BTW, while I'm sure some of the stuff I'm posting here seems really depressing, I don't mean it to be. I mean for it to be realistic. Maybe for some people maintenance is easy. For me it's not. For the crazy percentage of people who regain after weight loss, it's not. I am definitely doing better on IF than other diets I have tried (low carb: I'm looking at you!), but it's not effortless. This community definitely helps, as well as the diet being more sustainable than others.

re: dysmorphia. I have this really bad. I hadn't realized how common it was. It's weird how sometimes I don't feel/look any different to myself. I look back at the before pictures. I thought about keeping one pair of old trousers to remind myself how much I've lost, but I think they're all gone now.