The FastDay Forum

Michael, I'm not saying that at all - it's just that I seem to be seeing a lot of people combining everything into one program which ends up looking really restrictive - no carbs, liquid fasts followed by skipping more meals for 16/8. It seems less in the search of the health benefits Dr M wrote about and more about losing weight quickly. That seems very disordered to me.

But, like I said, I'm aware I could be reaching.

Well, it's the low carb (not "no carb") that makes liquid fasts so easy, so they go together. And the liquid fasts are for maximizing the potential health benefits.

16:8 isn't extreme or difficult at all, you simply skip breakfast or dinner and eat a lot during those 8 hours, I don't see the problem.

you don't see anything strange about how you refer to your eating? Liquid fasts which allow you to binge?

No, I've always enjoyed really big meals and would feel deprived without them. Combined with smaller meals and ordinary snacking this of course lead to some weight gain over the years before 5:2.

Michael, I'm not saying that at all - it's just that I seem to be seeing a lot of people combining everything into one program which ends up looking really restrictive - no carbs, liquid fasts followed by skipping more meals for 16/8. It seems less in the search of the health benefits Dr M wrote about and more about losing weight quickly. That seems very disordered to me.

But, like I said, I'm aware I could be reaching.

Well, it's the low carb that makes liquid fasts so easy, so they go together. And the liquid fasts are for maximizing the potential health benefits.

16:8 isn't extreme or difficult at all, you simply skip breakfast or dinner and eat a lot during those 8 hours, I don't see the problem.

Again I agree with MelMandy on this one, but that's just me! 16.8 simply just isn't for me, it is too restrictive,might be easy for some but i much prefer 5.2,after all that is what this forum is called uh!!

You have a point and with 11000 members there will be some who may be trying for too far. Should and indeed how can that be policed?
There are good guidelines for the forum, if you see a particularly worrying entry please bring it to the attention of the mods. They have experience with gentle help.

Fair point @Azureblue and thanks for reminding me about the mods!

Hi,
I too have seen on here some people (not many) whose BMIs are already at the low end of normal and have thought it concerning and when I started using this forum I saw all the different threads about 16:8, 4;3 etc and wondered what on earth they were. I've been doing 5 2 since June and have lost a fair amount of weight by doing the two days only, but over that time I have also starting eating less carbs and the occasional liquid fast, if only to give things a bit of a kickstart BUT I still eat well (more healthily than I ever have) and this is the first time I am eating like a 'normal' person - no real desire to binge, no eating in between meals etc. I don't see it as a 'diet' - just how I eat now. I do weigh myself daily and I probably was a bit obsessed with it in the beginning but now I just get on with it and my eating habits are probably FAR less 'disordered' now than they ever been. For me - it has been a revelation; I feel great and so much better about myself. It's a good point that was made about the possibility of disordered eating and I think it's a valid one but most people on here seem pretty sensible about it.

I think you raise a great point here @loversghost. The revelation and freedom that 5:2 (or other forms of fasting), has bought me has been incredible. No real desire to binge any more and I can't remember the last time I was snacking from the fridge. It's almost been like a complete re-education of how to eat and the realisation that our bodies do not need huge quantities of food.

This is possibly a different perspective, but here’s my two pennies worth. I used to have / still am recovering from bulimia. I’d eat as little as I could all day, and then if I was home alone I’d eat everything in sight because I was so hungry. Then I’d purge before anyone got home and tell my partner I’d only made him dinner because I’d eaten straight after work. I went through this cycle for over a year. My partner made me see a doctor, and I've been on antidepressants and had some counselling since. (Edit: when I say still recovering - I don't purge at all anymore but still get help for related issues and still take medication)

It wasn't that I wanted to be magnificently thin. It was a diet that just got too intense and went wrong. I’d just hit a plateau and nothing was budging and it was driving me crazy. I was going to the gym during my lunch break and after work (a total of 8 times a week) and I was always grouchy and exhausted. I got sick of it and just kept to restricted eating without the exercise. Nothing worked.

I'm not saying this is a cure – I was feeling much better before starting 5:2 than I was last year. But wow – since starting 5:2 I feel even better. I don’t panic now if I want some chocolate or a takeaway. I'm not scared of food anymore. And I don’t feel like I need to take it everywhere just in case I get hungry, but then deny myself it anyway. I don’t need to binge because food groups don’t feel off limits. I can honestly say I eat pretty much guilt free because I know that my fast days will keep me on track. I only do the standard 5:2 and I don’t do liquid fasts (nothing against them just haven’t ventured that way) and I've started losing weight. I don’t want to lose much, just enough to feel better in how I look.

So as far as 5:2 goes, I can see some people may take it uber seriously and I can understand where you’re coming from – but for me it’s actually helping to change my disordered mentality toward food. I’m just much happier and relaxed about it all.

This is possibly a different perspective, but here’s my two pennies worth. I used to have / still am recovering from bulimia. I’d eat as little as I could all day, and then if I was home alone I’d eat everything in sight because I was so hungry. Then I’d purge before anyone got home and tell my partner I’d only made him dinner because I’d eaten straight after work. I went through this cycle for over a year. My partner made me see a doctor, and I've been on antidepressants and had some counselling since.

It wasn't that I wanted to be magnificently thin. I’d just hit a plateau and nothing was budging and it was driving me crazy. I was going to the gym during my lunch break and after work (a total of 8 times a week) and I was always grouchy and exhausted. I got sick of it and just kept to restricted eating without the exercise. Nothing worked.

I'm not saying this is a cure – I was feeling much better before starting 5:2 than I was last year. But wow – since starting 5:2 I feel even better. I don’t panic now if I want some chocolate or a takeaway. I'm not scared of food anymore. And I don’t feel like I need to take it everywhere just in case I get hungry, but then deny myself it anyway. I don’t need to binge because food groups don’t feel off limits. I can honestly say I eat pretty much guilt free because I know that my fast days will keep me on track. I only do the standard 5:2 and I don’t do liquid fasts (nothing against them just haven’t ventured that way) and I've started losing weight. I don’t want to lose much, just enough to feel better in how I look.

So as far as 5:2 goes, I can see some people may take it uber seriously and I can understand where you’re coming from – but for me it’s actually helping to change my disordered mentality toward food. I’m just much happier and relaxed about it all.

That's fantastic to hear @gym-sparkle-90 - and thank you so much for your perspective. You're totally right in that with the right approach, this WOE can help rather than hinder a disordered approach to food. Definitely food for thought (excuse the pun)!

Thank you for this interesting discussion. I think the points have all been made. 11,000 people leads to a lot of variety in how we live. For me, I keep it simple: 2 days of less than 500 calories and eat what I like the other 5 days. I am pretty happy with how I eat on the 5 days; I don't do processed food much, grow a lot of our own fruit and veg, and I like good food. I lose weight slowly and that is the bit which drives people to try other variations. And I also feel disturbed when people on very low weight are agonising about not being able to lose more weight.

Nothing like a protracted plateau to make you want to investigate what else on here might shift things for you. As you might note my BMI is still nowhere near healthy range, some of spare tyre still present so I do liquid fasting with calories hero being green juice with fresh leaves from the garden and bullet coffee and herbal teas and water. The hunger switch stays off. The feast days are some times low carb but I know the fatigue to watch for and do have rice or odd piece of bread. I eat very healthily making things from scratch. Grateful to be less inclined to have diabetes with 6 inches off my tummy and my blood pressure which was borderline is lower.

Trying to move the last couple of kgs is proving so hard yet I know it's right to persist as I am shrinking in my belly measurements.

I wonder if some people have lower BMI as I seem to have one that seems crazily too high.

I completely agree with what gymsparkle said earlier - another thing that this WOE has done (for me) has given me back a feeling of control around food - I have never considered myself to have an 'eating disorder' as such but certainly for most of my life I had an unhealthy relationship with food - I used it as a comfort blanket a lot of the time and just before I started this WOE I really felt I had no control around food at all. Now I absolutely do; if I want a bit of chocolate then I have it, but a taste seems to be enough and I can STOP whereas before I'd have eaten the whole bar and then some (just like I think a lot of folk on this forum). I think it's how 'normal' people eat - I eat when I'm hungry and I stop when I'm full and 5 2 (as rawkaren said) seems to have reset my appetite. So when people pooh pooh it and say it's not good to miss meals blah blah I just ignore them and continue losing weight and getting healthier. Wahey!

Sorry for the long post!

When I first read about 5:2, I understood the object was to see if there were any health benefits and weight loss was a 'positive' side effect. In order to lose weight your calorie input has to be less than the energy you expend. This is the first method of losing and maintaining weight where all food groups can be consumed. Naturally we have different food preferences,have inherited different medical conditions etc so it is only natural to try different approaches to find out what suits us and more importantly our bodies. I do think that rather than jumping from one 'quick fix' to the next that it is better to give at least two weeks following eg 16:8 before deciding if it works for you to give your body a chance to adapt and hopefully show inch and/or weight loss. If that doesn't work then maybe try liquid fasting......

The basic idea is 5:2, but for me having a fast every 3rd day worked out better for me and my son (I'm a full time carer, at home, so weekends are no different to other days). So one week I have 2 days fast other weeks I have 3 days fast. No worries.

I have always gone for just having an evening meal, with an allowance of my calories towards milk in my cups of tea. But I was finding that the hunger pangs after having my dinner were getting intrusive, in a way distressing, so I decided to liquid fast and found it better for me. The exaggerated hunger pangs were gone.

Then there is the 16:8 version. I automatically eat this way because I don't eat breakfast, or very rarely eat breakfast. It may be 18:6 someday's, but its mostly 16:8.

What I am saying is that all these modifications came about naturally as a development of fasting or were there anyway, I've just slapped a name onto my normal habit.

The only adaptation I have done deliberately to boost the fasting was 2 lots of back to back fasting to kick me off my latest plateau. The rest is just what comes naturally.

I can understand the point of the original post, to be honest. When you potentially have 11000 members contributing to a message board, you WILL get a diversity of approaches. There are a lot of members on here who are sensible and have common sense and "savvy". Sadly, you will always get the odd few who take it to the extreme, are impatient and NEED to lose their weight RIGHT NOW and go silly. Plus those who really want to lose weight but just can't stop eating.... our diversity is what makes the boards interesting to read and we all support each other.

I suppose you could call me one of the "weirdies" in that I experimented with various WOE's to find the right balance that suited MY body. Even today when people ask me what the secret was to my weight loss I initially laugh and say "The usual.... eat less and exercise more" But I then go on to tell them that for me the TWO most important things were 1. To get into the right mindset - to stay focussed, determined and motivated. And 2. To find an eating plan that works for YOU - listen to your body. And this is why you see so many variations on this forum.... people with common sense have tweaked things to suit their individual body. It isn't cheating, or "doing it wrong", on the contrary, it is finding a way of doing is right... or improving things!!!!

What lost the weight for me in the end was a combination of exercise (namely running), low-carb, low-calorie, calorie-counting AND 5:2. It took me two months of tweaking and listening to my body at the start but at no time did I starve myself.

I'm definitely with Domane, it's all about personal needs and this WOL and indeed this forum embrace many forms of fasting and lets be honest most of us are here to lose weight!

I have done a couple of 4:3 weeks but could not make it a permanent thing as I get a bit down in the mouth if I have to fast too many days in the week. However some people would rather have more calories on their "feast" days and to balance this out they need 4:3 or ADF.

This diet is learning to balance your bodies needs and I personally don't see anything wrong with the odd "blow out" as long as it is not secret and it is enjoyed. Truthfully I find that as my time on this WOL continues I cannot eat anywhere near as much as I could before so my "binging" amount is vastly decreased. The word binging is of course associated with eating disorders but lets be honest for most people it just means a multiple course meal and alcohol!

My little sis has been natural size 8 all her life and I have always been envious of her ability to stay the same weight yet eat well when we have dinner out and enjoy a treat like ice cream if we go for a walk. It was not until I started this diet that I realised she is just one of the lucky ones who has an inbuilt FULL sensor that she listens to. If she eats a huge meal at the pub she isn't hungry and confesses to sometimes going 24hours without food after this. We are all learning to listen to our bodies and if we need a little variation to do this so be it.

I have only seen a couple of people on here with a BMI below 20 and no-one below 18. Remember BMI is only one way to assess healthy weight and does not always mean a person is skinny! My BMI is 22.6 (I think) but I am still carrying plenty of abdominal fat! There will always be those who take it to extremes but I personally find this WOL far healthier for my mental state than all that 5 small meals a day and snacking on seeds malarkey!

The beauty of the forum is that people share ideas/experiences of fasting and what works for them. We are still learning , as is DR MM, about fasting diets but I really believe this is less likely to cause/exacerbate eating disorders then any conventional diet.

Happy fasting people! (not me today- had lovely burger for lunch with red leicester and red onion chutney - sorry couldn't resist!) xxx

Thank you for this interesting discussion. I think the points have all been made. 11,000 people leads to a lot of variety in how we live. For me, I keep it simple: 2 days of less than 500 calories and eat what I like the other 5 days. I am pretty happy with how I eat on the 5 days; I don't do processed food much, grow a lot of our own fruit and veg, and I like good food. I lose weight slowly and that is the bit which drives people to try other variations. And I also feel disturbed when people on very low weight are agonising about not being able to lose more weight.

This is the best reasoning for 5:2 I have heard in a long time. Sally, I totally agree with you. This is not a race (at least for me), and I reckon too many people already have a low BMI but are not happy with themselves. Totally agree!