The FastDay Forum

@Carorees asked me to write this..glad some peeps find it helpful,Caro thought they would..
Havent been able to read all replies properly yet but i will so pls bear with me if you asked a question and i havent responded yet! X

I don't think the Famine Reaction has any thing to do with Christmas. I don't know what that's about. The famine reaction sets in when you have lost a lot of weight. It's an evolutionary thing: in times past people did experience famines- well, I spose they still do in some places, - and our bodies developed a mechanism to help us survive. When you lose a lot of weight, especially if you lose it fast, that's what happens. Oh, no, says your body, I'd better not lose any more weight. And you start to want to eat more. Try as you might, you can't lose weight. You're hungry all the time. Amanda Sallis says the way to get passed it is to reassure your body that there isn't a famine. The more you starve yourself, the worse it gets. I think 5:2 works so well because weight loss is slow and because we have more days in the week - I have 5 - when we are not dieting or restricting food. My body knows there's no famine because even though I've lost 10 kgs, I've just eaten 2 sultana-oat cookies.

My OH even changed the batteries in my weight scales because I thought they were malfunctioning

Hee hee glad it's not only me

I for one have had the light bulb moment and all the high fat, low carb etc, 4.3, IF talk. I've gone back to the beginning and thinking that 5.2 works all on its own. Eat less twice a week. And if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I think 5:2 works so well because weight loss is slow and because we have more days in the week - I have 5 - when we are not dieting or restricting food.

Interesting discussion! For me, apart from fasting, the essential part of 5:2 has always been to eat 'normally and sensibly' on feed days. The idea would be that your body is prevented to go into 'changing your metabolism or starvation mode'. So the approach is that it is essential that you do not try to 'overdo' the attempt to lose weight (at a faster rate).
Of course there will be different reasons for different people for something like a famine reaction, but are more of you who have experienced it have the idea, with hindsight, that they were perhaps not eating enough on regular feed days?

I don't think the Famine Reaction has any thing to do with Christmas. I don't know what that's about. The famine reaction sets in when you have lost a lot of weight. It's an evolutionary thing: in times past people did experience famines- well, I spose they still do in some places, - and our bodies developed a mechanism to help us survive. When you lose a lot of weight, especially if you lose it fast, that's what happens. Oh, no, says your body, I'd better not lose any more weight. And you start to want to eat more. Try as you might, you can't lose weight. You're hungry all the time. Amanda Sallis says the way to get passed it is to reassure your body that there isn't a famine. The more you starve yourself, the worse it gets. I think 5:2 works so well because weight loss is slow and because we have more days in the week - I have 5 - when we are not dieting or restricting food. My body knows there's no famine because even though I've lost 10 kgs, I've just eaten 2 sultana-oat cookies.

I AGREE @Sallyoits nothing to do with Christmas at all....
i only mention Christmas coz i wasnt hungry, in strong contrast to immediately after Xmas when i suddenly became ravenously hungry 24/7
You mention quick weight loss..i lost almost two stone between end Sept and Christmas so my body wanted to stop any more of that...and also as@P-JK says, for weeks i hadn't been eating enough on feed days in my efforts to lose weight quicker...which my body didnt like either!

I think this explains how I've been this week - thanks for all the info - I can now go about "eating my way out of it"!

So glad it struck a chord with you @Madcatlady.. I was so confused til i found debs link..which debs has reposted here so you can read up for yourself..
the solution is deffo to eat more..
Sallis calls this ' ad libitum ' feeding - you get in touch with your true hunger signals and eat accordingly..not an excuse to binge which i had to keep firmly reminding myself

Thank you for sharing! I too am struggling with good fast days...have slipped to 16:8 and feel like a hungry bear coming out of hibernation. I was thinking it was the cold or lack of activity. Shared same thoughts as @bbt053 in wondering if it was the second round of 6 month plateau (started with WW last January before finding 5:2).

Now I'm torn between having a pig out week or still fighting for good fasts.....

Whew you sound exactly like i was @GoLinda..think this might be the right time for you..not to pig out but to do " ad libitum" to calm those pesky brain chemicals..x

A timely reminder, thank you!

I had this last October, a couple of weeks after I hit maintenance. Scared the pants off me. I swapped to very low carb, low sugar and high fat - and although my calorie intake went through the roof, the extra fat immediately made me feel satiated and coupled with the reduction in carbs and sugar, I carried on maintaining beautifully. Was really weird to be tucking into bacon, butter, coconut oil and cheese!

Thanks @Domane iwell done you on increasing your calories..which IS a scary thing to do isnt it coz you feel like you' ll gain stones practically overnight
Plus the awful relentless hunger is frightening in itself! X

Thanks for taking the time to share that CM, very interesting stuff & something we must all keep in mind. Glad you're back out the other side

@Jo05 yes, you do need to eat on non-fast (feed!) days. I, and I think many of us, have found that your body needs the variety, I think of it as surprising it !
Think of it this way, you eat normally (try not to exceed your TDEE though ) for a couple of days & your body says, hey all is well, no famine. Then you fast, WOAH that surprised it, wasn't ready for that, didn't take the necessary precautions & make sure it clung on to what it could

Sooo interesting @AnnieD,

I like knowing we are getting closer to outwitting some of our biology. Gosh what a journey!!!
You're going well...i hope i keep going too.
Jo

Hi @Jo05 yeh outwitting is a good word! i wish our physiologies would get with the times we live in coz it takes sneakiness to over ride those ancient messages the brain still sends out..
What Annie says is very true..but having a lot to lose, i was trying to eat well below my TDEE a lot of the time..i usually count up the whole week's calories at the end of the week and divide by seven and was actually often only getting 1000 or so cals per day some weeks,when my TDEE is actually a lot higher than that..
so it worked for a while ..then the old neuropeptides kicked in to instigate FR..
well we live and learn don't we
debs has put the link somewhere on this thread,where you can read much more about it and how to beat it! X

Great thought provoking post, as usual. But this has made me think, and now my brain is whirring away....

Just a thought, but with so many individuals experiencing this, I was wondering if Xmas was the trigger.
Being at home, and or socialising, and not having our usual routines, did this confuse our "inner faster" and we are all now re-setting.
I'm only wondering as we are all at different stages of our own assault course which is 5.2.
I for one have had the light bulb moment and all the high fat, low carb etc, 4.3, IF talk. I've gone back to the beginning and thinking that 5.2 works all on its own. Eat less twice a week. And if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Hi Carie @carieoates ..yeah xmas can be a tense time and a trigger for so many things going pearshaped! Sometimes literally heehee as several of us have been struggling over the last few weeks!
But FR can happen any time of year - and it can happen time after time,so i'm glad the scientists have an explanation and can tell us how to counteract it..
When FR hit me,it really DID feel like an assault course .. ( great description !)
I think the fact i managed to lose two pounds even in FR shows how hard a battle i was fighting.

I agree with you,the 5:2 WoL is fab while its working, but we can't stop the hormones and chemicals kicking in and upsetting our well laid plans,so it's good to be prepared for the counter attack when/ if it all starts going wrong! X

@Isis fingers X 'd for yr weigh in! X

@AzureBlue you got it right,but remember when you are properly hungry,eat well but without calorie counting to lull your brain into not sending those pesky peptides! X

@Moogie whats the secret! How come your brain has evolved and mine is still sending crazy messages to ruin my weight loss plans! X

@Nessie you are so right and a wise lady to keep your body in a constant state of confusion..i sorta forgot that and made schoolgirl error of really trying to cut back hard on the cals on a daily basis! X

[Tracieknits]

Well done you!!

I don't think I'm ating enough on feed days. I just went into the progress tracker and changed the exercise from sedentary to active 3-5 times a week and it addedd 500kcals to my TDEE. I only eat twice a day as it is and have been shrinking the size of the portions, I don't think I should be doing that. Though the fact that I put on 2lb post Christmas should have shaken me out of famine reaction. I hope so anyway. I am going to have to do a week long calorie count to see what I am actually serving up and find out how short, if I am to my TDEE.

[Moogie]

@Moogie whats the secret! How come your brain has evolved and mine is still sending crazy messages to ruin my weight loss plans! X

Caro & I were hypothesising (ooh, big word!!) about this yesterday as she has also not experienced the famine reaction. We wondered if it's because we have always mixed up or calorie intakes a bit, splurging a bit at weekends but balancing it during the week. I wouldn't call it binging as such, but by having these treat days I guess the body never thinks we're in times of famine for long if at all.

Caro & I were hypothesising (ooh, big word!!) about this yesterday as she has also not experienced the famine reaction. We wondered if it's because we have always mixed up or calorie intakes a bit, splurging a bit at weekends but balancing it during the week. I wouldn't call it binging as such, but by having these treat days I guess the body never thinks we're in times of famine for long if at all.

Yes, @Moogiehypothesising, nothing wrong with that word, as it is nothing more than a possible answer to a question raised

A hypothesis becomes interesting by the plausibility of the explanation that it contains (and by testing that in real life of course).
As to the first: I think it is indeed one way of making sure that short periods of 'famine' really remain short periods, and that seems crucial to me. I would expect only a famine reaction after a durable (longer) period of calorie shortage. So some days of the week in which you are really sure to eat at least your TDEE or even a bit more could be important.

As to the second: would be interesting to see more reactions of members on whether and how they make sure they get enough food on the non-fasting-days part of the week and how that relates to experiencing anything like a famine reaction.