The FastDay Forum

I love 5:2 and am one of the lucky ones for whom it's working well. I don't see any problem with others tweaking the plan to suit their personal circumstances. I'd rather concentrate on all the positives and celebrate the successes here, no matter how they came about. I love the wonderful variety of friendly people we have on the board and the support that is always so readily given. Surely there's room for different opinions without the need to pass judgement on anyone else's choices (sometimes that includes choice of words too). We all have a common goal do we not?

It's getting hot in here! Nothing like a good debate.

yes that is unfortunate referring to the KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid.

i always using KISS to mean

Keep it simple sweetie.

Also, my words were

"Made me think about why people diverge for the simple principle of pure 5:2"

No judgement there.And indeed from the responses, there are very good reasons for variation and tweaking.

I'm not implying at all that people that dont follow KISS principles are stupid but sometimes getting down to basics when telling people about this WOL makes it easy for the "masses" to understand what is fundamentally a radical way of eating when weve all grown up with eat 3 meals a day principle since we were in kindy.

Keeping it simple is good principles for any media communication.. that you write things and disseminate information for an 8 or 9 year old to understand.

Certainly if i try to explain how im losing weight to a stranger or friend I don't ever say the acronym TDEE and definitely not Total Daily Energy Expenditure or you would get a glazed look.

So an earlier poster is right .. its even simpler .

Watch what you eat for just 2 days a week and eat "normally" for the rest

I didnt know what TDEE was, either till i arrived here. Unless you are an athlete.. I just tell people to eat normally is to consume 2,000 calories or 8,000 kiloujoules on the non restrictive days.

I think for those who are analytical and like to research the science behind the mad behaviour, then variation and adjustment to suit ones situation is fine, but just dont tell anyone unless they want to know. The forum is fine of course to share ideas but at the end of the day i think a lot of us arent actually on 5:2 (even me as im on 4:3)

Well I don't think anyone should be condescending about what people do other than the original 5:2. I think you are right in what you say Maryann, if people wish to mix it up to make it work that's their business. However I CAN understand why some people start to caught up in all these versions, thinking that they should do this or that cos someone else is talking about it. This CAN lead to confusion and even worse lead to people getting caught up in 'diet world'. This is an interesting subject, because there is no reason why 'fasting mixers' shouldn't share the ways they have found to make things better/easier...this can be valuable information for someone stuck on a plateau say. But the other side of the coin is that sometimes we can get caught up in changing things when they are NOT required. So my thoughts are that if you are doing the original version of 5:2 - 500 cals women, 600 cals men 2 days a week and it is working for you - ignore all the other versions. If however you are not losing weight for some reason and feel you need to look for an answer to this, then go read all about the other versions. No right or wrong, but don't let yourself get caught up in diet obsession is my advice

Well, you need look no further than my name to figure out my feelings on this debate. I think 5:2 is a really nice plan. It resembles other IF plans that came before it. In comparison, it is newer and not a lot of research has been done that specifially involves 5:2. Note that in the Horizon documentary Mosley did not start off doing 5:2; the research he cites originally comes from Alternate Day Fasting, not 5:2. Also, Mosley is a pretty healthy male who didn't have a huge amount of weight to lose.

I started 4:3 almost a year and a half ago, before the TV show aired as a fairly obese, not exactly healthy female. The plan might or might not work as written for someone with more to lose. My body adjusted to 4:3 and I had to make changes because I stopped losing. I don't think most of us are making changes just for the sake of it or to make the weight come off faster. I know that for me personally it was because the weight loss came to a stand still. I really don't understand the purist attitude. The book itself is not purist, neither is the show. If MM had not experimented with several types of IF he may never have found one that worked for him and never have written the book at all. I have said it before...but this forum is a big place. I think there is room enough for the "purists" and others who have found it necessary to make some tweaks to keep losing.

interesting GMH and 43tweaker.

I guess im a 4:3 purist in a way such that its the 5:2 with the difference on the extra day. Suspect to be honest i do the extra day 'cause I find the 500 calories a bit restrictive for a full so just in case i squeeze in another day but the principle us roughly the same. that is, its a calorie counting thing on a set number of days. I don't count hours of fasting but just the fact that its a day of the week. With one proviso.. if I happen to be awake on the midnight / 1am just after fast day i dont immediately leap into the fridge just because a new day has dawned.


Curious.

What are the variations on 5:2/4:3 that are out there anyway.

i think there is ..

16:8
36 hour liquid/juice fast
24 hour fast
fast with Paleo
semi fast days
low sugar/carbs
consecutive fast days
multivitamins supplementation on fast days

Have i missed any?

Yes, some people also do something called Dukan Attack; I don't know what that is.

sounds scary:-)

interesting GMH and 43tweaker.

Curious.

What are the variations on 5:2/4:3 that are out there anyway.

i think there is ..

16:8
36 hour liquid/juice fast
24 hour fast
fast with Paleo
semi fast days
low sugar/carbs
consecutive fast days
multivitamins supplementation on fast days

Have i missed any?

Only ones I can think of (this late at night) are

2pm 2pm or 5pm 5pm
1:6
ADF

The Forum has banned (I agree) any 'long term' fasting discussions. There are no guidelines on overlaying discussions about other diets (Paleo, Atkins, South Beach, Dukan (sp?), grapefruit, etc.) on discussions about 5:2.

When I first started 5:2 it was the simplicity that attracted me. Doing WW and counting points the whole time got me so obsessed with food that the whole business got really miserable! Never enjoyed any food really, always working out weights and points.
But I can see that, apart from plateauing and lots of other reasons for adding on extra restrictions, low carb, 4;3, etc to help, some people may well find it easier to follow a weekly regime. It helps them to feel more in control by looking at the whole week and monitoring their whole diet. Every day. Different types, different diets. What is freedom to me is too unstructured for others. As long as it works so what?
So good luck to everybody!

thanks for explaining what KISS means. I thought weightloss was a side effect of 5:2 it started out in the program as a benefit to general health. People with weight to lose will use any means they can. I see 5:2 as another tool in my weightloss regime. Its the health benefits that interest me more.

[wildmissus]

I thought I'd put my tuppence worth in.

Everyone is different and one way of eating doesn't suit everyone.

Speaking personally I did 5:2 in it's simplest form until I hit a plateau, a 7 week plateau. Now, on any other diet I would have given up and put on all the weight I lost. But this isn't just a way of losing weight, it's a way of life for health benefits as well (hopefully).

The weight I plateaued at was a) overweight BMI and b) too heavy for my body shape. So why did I plateau..............because of what I eat on the 'normal' 5 days and that is what I think people miss the point on. We know a lot of what people eat on fast days. ie. from 0 cals to 500/600 cals. But, on non fast days some people eat very healthily anyway, lots of veg, low carb, calorie count, etc but other people (like me) eat high carb, bread, chocolate (and not just once a day), biscuits, crisps .

To get off the plateau I decided to try TML's idea of the Dukan Attack - 3 days of purely protein. Why did I decide to do that? Because it is the opposite from how I normally eat. Result - 5lb loss in 3 days.

My conclusion - if you plateau, try something different to shake your body up. I have only done the Dukan Attack once as it isn't my preferred way of eating but I now know if I want to continue losing weight I have to reduce the amount of bad carbs on normal days.

So my advice to anyone would be that if you are losing weight doing 5:2 in it's simplest form then just keep going (if it's not broken don't fix it). But if you've got stuck have a look at the forum to see how other people have re-started there weight loss but don't give up.

It would be a really boring forum if we all wrote "fasted 2 days, kept to my TDEE and I lost a 1 lb this week" imagine that, luckily we are all different and we share all the ways we try to make this work for us and by doing so help someone else in the world that has had a similar experience as ourselves. I love reading all the variations

I have been contemplating all of this whilst making my fast dinner. My contemplation was on why I do what I do. It's not cos it's simple - surely eating for 8 hours a day 7 days a week is simple.

It's because it suits my nature - I'm all or nothing (my mother kept muttering 'moderation in all things' I argued back, that that was boring!), I have done mostly 4:3 as I wasn't sure I would lose much weight or very slowly on 5:2 as I originally only wanted to lose 6kg. But I do find on 4:3 that I eat more the night before a fast...storing up before the food stops? On 5:2 I am a lot more careful of my feed day eating. Therefore I think 5:2 is best for me - but I am doing 4:3 again this week in the hope of getting that last 500 gms off...and I went a bit mad on my last couple of feed days.

I don't really count cals strictly, just guesstimate..or I cook in bulk and freeze, so divide up cals.

I am afraid of 16:8, I am sure I would be swilling another mouthful (or mound-full) of food at 7hrs 55 mins into feed! Low GI carbs are already factored into my food...apart from cakes & wine I can't even remember all of the other versions.

To summarise: I like to be able to diet 2 or 3 days a week, eat whatever I like the other days (& yes I can eat whatever I like) and my weight is almost at goal. It suits my nature

GMH, I am the same as you....I started with the intention of doing 5:2, but decided in favour of 4:3 as it suits me better. I like the simplicity of knowing that on fast days I eat my pre-planned 500cals and that's it, so no further thought is required. And on feed days I try to include healthy foods for nutritional reasons but I don't count them at all and if I want something "bad" I have it.

I know if I did 5:2 I'd have to be a lot more careful on feed days....and that would feel too much like an "every day" diet, which is exactly what I was trying to get away from by doing this in the first place. It works for me, but everyone's different and that's the beauty of this plan - it's flexible and can easily be adapted to suit the individual.

What are the variations on 5:2/4:3 that are out there anyway.

i think there is ..

16:8
36 hour liquid/juice fast
24 hour fast
fast with Paleo
semi fast days
low sugar/carbs
consecutive fast days
multivitamins supplementation on fast days

Have i missed any?

I don't know if all of these are really versions of 5:2, I mean I eat low sugar, I have done since the beginning of the year, it didn't make me lose weight previously to 5:2, it is just my normal way of eating, and I think that is the case for a lot of low carbers/paleo/low sugar peoople...we are just trying to eat a healthy diet.

I'm also vegan, but again I don't think being vege/vegan etc. is connected to 5:2 (unless perhaps people only eat like that on fast days?) as I ate like that long before 5:2.

I guess what this really is is the intermittant fasting forum, as no matter what else we do we all fast intermittantly (be it for 2 days or 1 or 16h etc.) and that's what makes us all alkie. As for what we all do differently, well that's a vast subject!