The FastDay Forum

This question constantly crops up on the Fast-5 FB page. Dr Herring says that up to 40 calories in the Fasting period is OK for most people, but for some it may slow down weight loss. He recommends that people who would prefer to have milk or cream in their tea or coffee during the Fast to fast strictly for 3 weeks, then have 3 weeks with the milk or cream in coffee during the fast and compare results.

I keep meaning to try and get myself to like black coffee just to see if it makes any difference to my weight loss, but it's just so easy to add the little drop of milk (which as you say may actually be more than I realise) which makes it taste so much nicer!

In my mind having a coffee with semi-skimmed milk in the morning isn't breaking my fast, and for me I think that's the important thing - what's in my mind. If I thought of it as eating, then I'd probably want to eat something else, however because I think of myself as in 'fast mode' I can easily(ish) last until about 5pm before having anything. There are a lot of individual differences for people, and I think this is probably one of those. It just seems best for people to experiment and see what works for them, rather than always following the research - after all there's bound to be research to contradict it!

The first 9 months of fasting I cut out coffee as it woke my hunger monster - has anyone else found that? I did not miss it at all, now I have the odd expresso.
If I want a strict fast I drink tea with lemon - always makes me feel cleansed, otherwise it's tea with milk.

An important factor to consider here is that milk has a surprising amount of fast carbohydrate in it. Some people with diabetes often use milk to raise their blood sugar when threatened with a severe attack of low blood sugar.

So though it might sound counter intuitive, you might do better on a fast using cream, which has almost no sugar in it or half and half (a milk/cream mixture used in the U.S.) When I started fasting I trained myself to use only 1 tbs of half and half in my one daily coffee, which was 20 grams. I got used to that amount of whitening surprisingly quickly, though I had been using twice as much before. And I don't find that the tiny amount of carb in the half and half makes me hungry.

Since fasting has very much the same physiological impact as as ketogenic low carb dieting and cream works very well in those diets, this makes good sense.

Caffeine is prohibited on some ketogenic diets because it stimulates cortisol release which for some people raises blood sugar. Raised blood sugar creates hunger feelings in many of us. The combination of the cortisol and higher blood sugar from milk probably isn't going to support fasting. So you probably have to observe your own hunger patterns to determine if you can tolerate milk and coffee or tea without ramping up hunger.

The last couple of weeks I have been using 1 tbsp of either full cream or Elm lea singke (not been able to find the light for a while). Wow it's lovely! Actually when I started fasting I swapped sugar for cream when I go out for breakfast, you get a free Nescafé instant coffee, usually I'm a cappuccino drinker. Being a believer that fat is way better than sugar was my thinking. I have to admit I am very liberal with that cream lol. But it's on a none fast day and I count the cals.

So far, having cream in my coffee has not lead to hunger or any difference negatively in my weight loss. I have just one or occasionally two. Of course, this is just how it's reacting in my body.

Thanks for all the tips and insight into this subject.

[Moogie]

I'd be lost without my cuppas in the day! I measured out my semi-skimmed milk a few times and found my splash is about 1.5tbsp, or 22.5ml, which is about 12 calories, so if I have 3 on a fastday I'm not too concerned and don't even take it out of my allowance. As Caro said, those few cals will be used up pretty quickly!

No-one has mentioned bulletproof IF which involves coffee blended with butter and coconut oil so I will fly the flag. I stepped away from it last year but re-started last week and have lost an inch off my waist already just by drinking fatty coffee all day on fast days and just in the mornings on other days.

No-one has mentioned bulletproof IF which involves coffee blended with butter and coconut oil so I will fly the flag. I stepped away from it last year but re-started last week and have lost an inch off my waist already just by drinking fatty coffee all day on fast days and just in the mornings on other days.

It's naughty really but I do sometimes have a bulletproof during my fasting window in the hope it gives me some oomph for a run. Sorry, Dr Herring, really I am.

So @rawkaren, do you manage to stay under the calorie limit on Fast days with the coffees? Not a problem for me that, and I am generous with the fats.

No-one has mentioned bulletproof IF which involves coffee blended with butter and coconut oil so I will fly the flag. I stepped away from it last year but re-started last week and have lost an inch off my waist already just by drinking fatty coffee all day on fast days and just in the mornings on other days.

It's naughty really but I do sometimes have a bulletproof during my fasting window in the hope it gives me some oomph for a run. Sorry, Dr Herring, really I am.

So @rawkaren, do you manage to stay under the calorie limit on Fast days with the coffees? Not a problem for me that, and I am generous with the fats.

@barbaritaI don't do that many full day fasts any more. I find windows work better for me. However when I do, I find that I function better on fat so yes a fatty coffee or a coyo yogurt can see me through.

Coyo yoghurt is delicious, have you tried Coyo "ice cream"? Serious "I'll have some of what she's having" stuff.

My strongest take on this interesting discussion is that one of my main problems as a dieter, exerciser, ___________ (fill in whatever you wish here), was/is black and white thinking. Either be perfect or you are a failure and might as well quit! It's what kept me from achieving what I hoped to achieve. No more! I do the best I can every day. No more failure. As a result, I now weigh what I did in my early 20's (at 67) and look and feel great. I regret those years I let slip by, but c'est la vie!
So, I get out the door every day with my little dog, eat my nuts (with black coffee, my preference) in the morning, homemade soup or salad at lunch, and fish, chicken or beef and salad for dinner on fast days. Most fastdays come off without a hitch, but not always, and tomorrow is a new day! Don't ya love it?

I have about 3 expressos with about a tablespoon of full fat milk in each cup and dare i say a 1/8th teaspoon of sugar. that along with a little protein at about 11am or 12 midday and not a lot else but definietly something till dinner

Still consider myself having a normal 4:3 fast day in teh way described by MM in his doco and book

To this day, this diet has been incorrectly named as 5:2 with 2 fasting days or a fast diet. It is not. it is significant calorie restrictions on 2 or 3 days a week (3/4 off your TDEE) unfortunately the term "fast days" is too entrenched to change it

I bought a UK magazine and they call it a 500 calorie diet. thats actually more correct.

My strongest take on this interesting discussion is that one of my main problems as a dieter, exerciser, ___________ (fill in whatever you wish here), was/is black and white thinking. Either be perfect or you are a failure and might as well quit! It's what kept me from achieving what I hoped to achieve. No more! I do the best I can every day. No more failure. As a result, I now weigh what I did in my early 20's (at 67) and look and feel great. I regret those years I let slip by, but c'est la vie!
So, I get out the door every day with my little dog, eat my nuts (with black coffee, my preference) in the morning, homemade soup or salad at lunch, and fish, chicken or beef and salad for dinner on fast days. Most fastdays come off without a hitch, but not always, and tomorrow is a new day! Don't ya love it?

Thank for this @bordergirl . I've been curious for a while now about the "black or white, all or nothing" trait--does it apply to other aspects of life or only to weight control, or is it different with different people? As a person who's ok with gray, and ok with "close enough", I'm somewhat mystified with the idea that putting a little milk or cream in coffee "breaks the fast"

So I wonder, do other people besides you with this trait also have to score 100% on an exam or feel like a failure?, win every contest or fail? Be either genius or idiot? Be a billionaire or poverty-stricken? I'd be very interested to know.

And, bg, congratulations on conquering this attitude towards food What about other areas of life as you mentioned--any mellowing there? I see by your tracker that you've made wonderful progress with weight control.

Thank you for your kind words, Marybeth. I think this 100% or nothing attitude is pretty prevalent in dieters and exercisers for sure. It also shows up in students. I know I have it and have struggled with it for years as a student and in my daily life. Procrastination was/still is (unfortunately) my weapon and my curse. I worked at things, but couldn't bring myself to finish them until it was literally the last minute--or , occasionally, too late! That way, I could tell myself, "Hey, that wasn't half bad! Just think how well I might have done if I hadn't waited until the last minute." In this way, I managed to navigate most of the way through adulthood. I was able to do that because I really am fairly sharp, just unfocussed. In diet and exercise, it was usually the old "Well, I blew it for today. Might as well REALLY blow it. I am such a loser! But, I will start again tomorrow." All with the self-flagellation that accompanies this cycle in all areas of life. Years pass this way.
Knock on wood, I think I have addressed my black and white thinking in at least this one area of my life. I'm hoping it will spread to other areas.

Oh, a true story. I once had checked a book out of the public library on procrastination. I finally returned it months and months later. The head librarian, a really neat guy, happened to be there and laughed so hard that he waived all fees!