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General 5:2 and Fasting Chat

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Real Fasting
06 Sep 2014, 23:54
Well I'm just sitting here contemplating, as per. I was thinking back to the original Eat, Fast, Live Longer doco and was wondering if anyone here does usual eating, then 4 days of no cal fasting a la Valter Longo? For years I used to do 4 day fasts, often a 7 day version where you cut back, then did 4 days of no cals, then a light day of cals. I only did it once a year. But I was pondering weight loss vs health benefits as a reason for 'fasting'. I mean if you get the same health benefits by eating what you like and then doing a 4 day fast, is this easier than counting calories or counting carbs, or worse still not having that which you like, e.g. wine or something sweet. There is a lot of talk about not eating this or that today, but as Valter Longo showed, you can eat anything and stay healthy by doing 4 day fasts monthly. I know that the hardest part of fasting is convincing your mind it will be OK, to do without breakfast or lots of food, or that 4 days of no cals will be unbearable. But this 24/7 obsession with diet is hard work, even for those who watch us doing it. A lot of us, me included, started this because we were sick of dieting, not eating carbs, in essence spending our lives obsessed. Terrified of gaining weight. I guess my real question is: IS there a way to be healthy and slim without being obsessed, or is that just for the naturally slim?
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 06:54
A 4-day fast every month would seem like a huge psychological hurdle to me. I would maybe like to try doing one in a clinic to see what it was like. I am glad I have had the experience of some 36-hour water only fasts as it makes my eating window regime feel so doable. I do not think I have the grit to do 96 hours regularly; it would feel much harder than what I do (I don't count calories or carbs or undereat)
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 07:45
Back in my confident youth I would fast for three days now and then, but along came two babies and I forgot all about it until Dr MM and his quest. Back then I was thin, it was more for a clean body, mind and soul, but now, having lost the worst of the intervening years' weight gain, I want to fast mostly for the health benefits he spoke about. I want to live forever and put off diabetes, senility, heart attack etc., who wouldn't?
Currently fasting has become tricky, not getting further than 17 hours. I put it down to diet fatigue+seasonal changes and hope that my head will become more willing to co-operate in a week or two. My weight has reached the upper limit of the 'vary fairy' swing at 72kgs :0@

Isn't any sort of deliberate food intake restriction some sort of diet, albeit long term, though way of life would be preferable?
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 08:51
I believe that Longo's studies involve people living in the clinic for their safety. Longer fasts are risky which is why we only allow discussion of up to three days with a 500 calorie allowance or 36 hours on no calories on this forum.
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 09:09
The original idea of 5:2 is to do exactly that: fast on two days and no stress (eating normal and anything you like) on non-fast days. I never did anything else, and got into a regular routine on fast days (small breakfast and lunch, and for dinner anything that is on the menu but just in a very small quantity). This means no calories counting on fast days (I know my routine has about 600 cals on fast days) and naturally no counting on non fast days, because that was the basic idea in the first place. I also eat carbs, fat and protein just as I please. So, yes you could try 4 strickt fast days, but you could also find a relaxed way of doing 5:2.
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 10:54
I'm with you @P-JK, that is almost identical to how I have lost my weight with 5:2, except I find it easier not to eat breakfast or lunch on fast days but have a very good meal for dinner in the evening. I decided to try this WOE for the very fact that I didn't want to give up any of the things I enjoy and, after years of doing it, I never wanted to count a calorie again! It has worked for me and I am now maintaining on one or two fasts a week, or sometimes none!

I don't think that fasting for long periods of time, except under medical supervision and for medical reasons, is a WOE which should be considered for the majority of people. There is no reason to do it when 5:2 works so well! :smile:
Re: Real Fasting
07 Sep 2014, 12:57
I'm with @P-JKtoo, except that I find it easier to skip breakfast and lunch.
Re: Real Fasting
08 Sep 2014, 03:35
You don;t mean 4 days in one go? Do you?
Re: Real Fasting
08 Sep 2014, 23:40
Besides the potential for getting your electrolytes so off balance with an unsupervised 4 day fast every month that you kill yourself, the problem with prolonged fasting is that it can easily lead to your developing a serious eating disorder.

Many of the "naturally slim" have eating disorders and starve themselves. So do most people whose careers depend on staying physically perfect.

Perhaps you need to rethink what your realistic maintenance level should be. You are quite slim, so why not see what level you stabilize at if you fast one day a week and just eat reasonably for the rest, without counting.

Stay off the scale for two weeks, to let your body adjust. Probably what you are seeing is not real weight gain but the glycogen related water weight gain that happens after fasting or after cutting carbs beliw about 70 g a day and then slightly raising them. This is something the low carb gurus are shamefully silent about and that rebound gain upsets many dieters needlessly and causes that toxic fear. The gurus like that fear because they think it scares people into sticking to their diets, but I'm convinced that fear is what makes peopke so unhappy they end up blowing off the diet.
Re: Real Fasting
09 Sep 2014, 06:35
I have recently moved to 36 hour zero calorie fasting which I ironically find easier than '500' calories a day. Also because 5:2 is supposed to be 25% of calorie intake on fast days, that is only 350 cals for me and zero is easier than 350!

I'm sure two of these a week would be a better alternative if you are doing zero calorie fasts. I too used to do 3 day water fasting when I was alot younger once a month, but the prep and the post fast routines ended up making it a week of restriction and I'm not sure I'm up for that.
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