The FastDay Forum

I was doing some research to try to figure out why I'm getting these horrible flu-like symptoms the day after a fast, and it looks like people doing low carb diets have known about this problem for a while. I am not doing low carb, but have the same situation of trying to switch my body to fat-burning mode through fasting. I found an interesting article here: http://www.gnolls.org/1984/

But I was really interested in this comment on the article:

Barry Sears has a different take on this. He says it is a release of archidonic acid (AA) from fat cells, from a previous high carb + omega 6 diet. This diet leads to a large amount of AA sequestered in fat cells. The sudden release leads to production of the inflammatory eicosanoid hormones which give the following symptoms – headaches, constipation, fatigue, aches and pains and more interestingly an increase in any inflammatory condition the person suffers from. Increased allergies, eczema or asthma flare up or increased joint pain if arthritic etc. Al of these are linked to overproduction of AA derived eicosanoids.

I think this may be accurate, because last night I took two Iboprofen which is an anti-inflamatory and I felt much better.

One recommendation is exercise, which I don't have time for every day but I will try to do more (kind of hard when you feel lethargic)! I am really hoping that this is temporary because I would love the increased energy and clarity that people talk about with this... my experience right now is the opposite. I am tired and achey and stuffed up and can't seem to focus on anything. Except researching why this is happening instead of working.

Very interesting! I too seem to have some odd symptoms this last 2 weeks and was pondering if it had anything to do with the fasting and my basically detoxing bad stuff out of cells.

[carorees]

Been trying to reply to this but phone browser keeps crashing! Not sure the theory is entirely sound. Will try to check it out tomorrow (did my PhD on inflammation and eicosanoids as it happens).

Been trying to reply to this but phone browser keeps crashing! Not sure the theory is entirely sound. Will try to check it out tomorrow (did my PhD on inflammation and eicosanoids as it happens).

I look forward to reading what you know Caroline!

A couple of weeks before I found about 5:2 I was told that a carb-free diet might help my thyroid to turn on.
Although I knew that my stomach would resist, I thought I'd give it a go. I managed for 5 days. The first day was OK, the second was bad, the 3rd was worse... The 6th day was a nightmare. Not only my head was killing me, my stomach was protesting, my allergy got worse (it's that time of year) and my various aches and pains got so much worse.
I didn't know what to do and I called a friend who reads a lot about diets, nutrition etc and she told me "eat a plate of pasta and you'll be fine in less than 2 hours". I was fine in 45 minutes.

Since I have inflammatory problems, I would love to hear what Caroline has to say on that. I eat mostly carbs on fast days because of my weird stomach but I keep on itching to try carb-free or at least less-carb days. But if that won't be good for my joints, then I'll stick to my beloved porridge until I get tired of it and then see what will follow.

I wonder about the Sears theory, though: if it's purely a release of AA from fat, shouldn't it happen with every weight loss plan?

[carorees]

OK, I've spent quite a long time trying to find some research on arachidonic acid metabolism in adipocytes during fat mobilization. I can't find anything that would support the release of AA theory (that's not to say that it's wrong, just I can't find supporting evidence).

I did find this interesting explanation of low carb flu (with references, hurrah!), which explains a lot of things that are relevant to any diet that involves cutting down on carbs and increasing fat burning. http://www.gnolls.org/1984/ If you read through the comments you will see that Dr Sears AA theory is aired and, like me, the author of the article could not find evidence to support it.

I have looked at Dr Sears' website and his monographs (http://www.drsears.com/portals/6/Docume ... ochure.pdf) and interestingly when you look at the section where he propounds his theory of release of accumulated AA, the references he cites do not appear to support his theory! The problem is that AA is a constituent of cell membranes and while I agree about its role as a precursor of inflammatory molecules, I am not sure that fat mobilization from adipocytes results in release of AA. His theory that excessive AA results in increased numbers of fat cells may be right but release of AA would require death of the fat cells whereas fat mobilization during fasting/low carb first shrinks the fat cells rather than reduces their number.

Needs further research on my part I think!

Can the number of fat cells reduce???
I thought that it is formed till a certain age and then stays the same forever...

[carorees]

Fat cells can certainly die through programmed cell death (apoptosis) and also necrosis. I'm not sure, though, whether you always get the same number of new ones to replace the old ones. That needs further checking!

Interesting!!! And how can I kill them???

Yeah, lets assassinate the little swines!

The war has began.

[carorees]

Better than that, convert the white adipose cells (fat storers) into brown adipose cells (fat burners)! One way to do this might be to increase the amount of brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) which you can do by.....fasting!!!
See this study in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21907139

Another way to turn white fat cells brown is cold exposure. It doesn't even have to be that cold. One study found increased activity in brown adipose tissue after exposure to 19℃ (wearing light clothing) for 2 hours. So just take off some of your jumpers and turn the thermostat down!

Since brown fat generates heat, if you stop feeling cold on fast days and start feeling warm that might be a hint that you have converted some white fat cells to brown ones.

I have a friend who never uses the water heater. She takes her shower with whatever the tab has to offer (bbbrrrrr). She is around 55-years old and she has the leanest body I've ever seen!!!
She eats whatever and in big-ish amounts and she never works out. So indeed cold does work!

Hmm... I've spent the last six months cycling to/from work in weather <5C. I wonder if there's any way to finding out how much brown fat you have... it would be interesting to measure it now.... and then at the end of the summer (if we get one!)