The FastDay Forum

Just listening to Radio 4's Woman's hour & they will be discussing fasting diets and have Krista Varady on (probably promoting the Every Other Day Diet as she seems to be doing the rounds at the moment).

Woman's hour is usually pretty balanced and allows for in depth conversations and public feedback so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pjcy7

Switch on now or catch up on iplayer! X

Listening as I type.

She's just said the health benefits basically come from the weight loss! Did i hear right Merlin!

[Debs]

Hi ladies,
I have just merged these two valuable posts together, and thank you. Look forward to listening to it tomorrow.

Yes you did!

She said "health benefits basically come from the weight loss"? So that accounts for her no longer fasting. Whereas Mosley continues to fast weekly due to his belief in the health benefits of fasting itself. Interesting.

To me it seemed a very short interview,but on Womans Hr they do try to cram a lot into the hour..
She was very much being challenged by presenter and another woman along the " isnt this just another diet" lines...
What took me aback was when she listed the health benefits and was asked,what causes these health benefits,she said,Mainly the weight loss! I know it isnt proven,but i thought we were all hoping that the fasting aspects also made a difference here..
Only Every Other Day / ADF was mentioned and as far as i know she didnt directly mention mM or 5:2 just stressed her " diet" is the only one scientifically backed up
Have to say,she seemed a bit of a cold fish too..difficult to warm to her!
Sooooooo..is this just another diet then?
I' m sticking with it anyways..my dizziness has improved since 5:2 ing and i no longer get horrid 4pm dips every day,where i felt starving,miserable and cold til i ate something carby..
Other diets only made that problem worse!

I've not read up on her research but perhaps her studies only focussed on weightloss and weightloss outcomes and not on health benefits per se hence her not talking about the health benefits of the actual fasting itself. Mosley based his thoughts on other researchers eg Longo and Mattson who (if I recall correctly) focussed on the health aspects.

It wasn't the most impressive interview I've heard. It certainly wouldn't have encouraged me to try fasting or buy the book-which I presume was the aim. she didn't mention 5:2 and when asked said she had tried her own a couple of times,but didn't sound very enthusiastic-maybe she is just interviewed out, she does seem to be doing rather a lot of promotion interviews.

Hmm yes I didn't really feel I learned very much about the diet - perhaps Merlin you're right she's just interviewed out! I would have liked to have heard from someone who has actually done it and can say what their experiences were - especially someone who has previously struggled with diets and food. I would have also liked to hear about variants of 'every other day' which for most, including me, seems too daunting a prospect!

But yes I was a bit dismayed to think that she felt that the main health benefits were only to do with weight loss. I understood from MM's book (I think) that fasting resulted in a higher loss of visceral fat than someone just following a general calorie-restricted diet.

Hey@Bssh six stone lost! kudos! X
And @greenmonster i agree! She was quite lacklustre and uninspiring..i was thinking at the time,one of our lot should be on there..would do a better job of promoting IF x
I suppose in fairness to her,she wasnt given much time ... But yes@Merlin she wdnt inspire anyone to rush out to buy the book
Maybe just having an off day? X

[carorees]

I've not read up on her research but perhaps her studies only focussed on weightloss and weightloss outcomes and not on health benefits per se hence her not talking about the health benefits of the actual fasting itself. Mosley based his thoughts on other researchers eg Longo and Mattson who (if I recall correctly) focussed on the health aspects.

Her research does show that there is a preferential fat loss from the abdomen and preservation of fat-free mass (i.e., everything that isn't fat including muscle). Because obesity is related to so many health problems, losing weight, however you do it, would be expected to be associated with improvements in these health problems.

However, as you might expect, it's a bit more complicated than that! There is a school of thought that abdominal obesity is a symptom of insulin resistance rather than a cause (like a bruise is a symptom of a knock not the cause of it). Insulin resistance is reduced by calorie restricted diets, so the health benefits that are seen alongside the loss of fat are due to the improvement in insulin resistance rather than the fat loss itself. Thus, it is the diet not the loss of weight that brings the health benefits. This is probably why a reduction of as little as 5% of body weight can bring substantial benefits. Fasting (and low carbing) are more effective at lowering insulin and reversing insulin resistance than other diets and so would be expected to bring greater health benefits than other diets and this will be reflected in bigger losses in abdominal fat, which is, in fact, what we do see.

The theory that weight loss alone results in health benefits can be investigated by looking at what happens if you surgically remove fat by liposuction. What happens is that there is no improvement in insulin resistance and other cardiovascular risk factors as this study shows: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18820648

Body composition and metabolic risk factors for CHD, including oral glucose tolerance, insulin resistance, plasma lipid profile, and blood pressure were evaluated in seven obese (39 +/- 2 kg/m(2)) women before and at 10, 27, and 84-208 weeks after large-volume liposuction. Liposuction surgery removed 9.4 +/- 1.8 kg of body fat (16 +/- 2% of total fat mass; 6.1 +/- 1.4 kg decrease in body weight), primarily from abdominal SAT; body composition and weight remained the same from 10 through 84-208 weeks. Metabolic endpoints (oral glucose tolerance, homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance, blood pressure and plasma triglyceride (TG), high-density lipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol, and low-density lipoprotein (LDL)-cholesterol concentrations) obtained at 10 through 208 weeks were not different from baseline and did not change over time. These data demonstrate that removal of a large amount of abdominal SAT by using liposuction does not improve CHD metabolic risk factors associated with abdominal obesity, despite a long-term reduction in body fat.

Further, we can see that fasting itself can bring health benefits from the studies by Valter Longo on the 5-day once a month fast. The participants gained back the weight they lost during fasting but they gained health benefits that persisted.

Isn't the problem with most diets that you put the weight back on when you finish following the diet. I look at 5:2 ( or 6:1 whatever fast you're following) as a lifestyle changed to be continued so weight doesn't go back on, which in itself will give benefits.