The FastDay Forum

Is that a low carb tent? I'm in. I've just posted on FatDogs thread and I really think it is the way forward for those of us who are apple shaped. I say low carb but initially I mean reducing carbs - no more toast for me and tonight I didn't have any tatties with my roast dinner. I actually don't think it will be too much of a hardship. I'm like you @Silverdarling, I don't and still don't intend to weight and measure and I've no idea what 100g carbs looks like. For months now I've been posting about my intention to reduce carbs and now I'm doing it.

You are gonna wee a lot for the first three days @wildmissus

Thanks @kencc for your response it is appreciated and I agree with rawkaren it would be a great shame if you decided to leave, so please don't. The ensuing responses on this thread have proved to be a catalyst for deeper discussion to the real issue many of us face ... how to improve our health by getting rid of our middle age spread

Thanks for those links @FatDog the last one a coincidence as on my list of books to buy is 'The wisdom of Menopause' by Dr Christaine Northrup, my sister was singing this book's praises only yesterday. Love serendipity moments like that. Also have to recommend your low carb bread, it is a hit in our house. DH is tucking into it now too. It looks a little different but the texture and flavour hits the bread/toast spot and I hope will be my solution for non wheat bread replacement. It is like a pumpernickel and so quick to make.

I too would like some help on what low carb is like while not getting fatigued especially if I shaft wheat completely.

Kencc, I hate back-patters and I'm not here because I think I'll find some. But I also hate insults and that's what you provided. Perhaps you didn't mean to, perhaps you did mean to, either way you insulted many.

Regarding low carb etc... I'm a pear. My mum is a pear. When she lost over 10 kilos because of a super hyper-active thyroid, her arse and thighs were still fatter than the rest of her.
I'm compromised with the shape of my body and there is NO way that I'm giving up toast, pasta, sweets and the lot hoping for something that I find impossible to happen. On the other hand, if you girls succeed I'll be first in line for the celebratory drinks!

There are two things that I know I'll never have: absolute straight hair and small arse. At least I'm not a Sevco fan... (That's one for the Scots!)

I'm now 8 months into this WOL and my main/big health problem was my oedema which was then really severe there was slight improvement at the 6 month stage but not as much as my then 30 lbs lost should have shown and because of info found on this forum regarding carb related water retention and at no stage has my GP or Nurse or anyone in the medical world passed that on to me never!!!
I was into this primarily for weightloss and admit that but it wasn't long before I'd stated that the benefits were showing that being my breathing getting easier on my walks and that's another point to make on day one of this WOL I did a 2 mile walk that increased to about 6/7m I was never a fat idol btch*sitting at home feeling sorry for myself but because of my issues I couldn't get out to walk or exercise either indoors or outdoors. I don't feel as if I want to do go completely carb free because I love my food and always have but the difference is absolutely amazing I can't put into words either spoken or written its one of those
" things" that has to be seen to believe
For this reason alone this small sacrifice is well worth the reduction I have made, mostly bread I have to admit I have stopped the lunchtime sandwich and eat less potatoes I don't know if anyone can say the bread is worse that potatoes carb wise

That said is the reason I don't like to see members packing there bags and leaving this forum because without your knowledge where would people like me be?
maybe its just the way the point is made sometimes that sounds different and preaching.
Also the members who have been full of support and friendship who've also packed up there bags and left it's a new year so unpack and forget the past issues
( no need to forgive) come back to where you belong you know you want to please, can you hear me over there TML

Is that a low carb tent? I'm in. I've just posted on FatDogs thread and I really think it is the way forward for those of us who are apple shaped. I say low carb but initially I mean reducing carbs - no more toast for me and tonight I didn't have any tatties with my roast dinner. I actually don't think it will be too much of a hardship. I'm like you @Silverdarling, I don't and still don't intend to weight and measure and I've no idea what 100g carbs looks like. For months now I've been posting about my intention to reduce carbs and now I'm doing it.

You are gonna wee a lot for the first three days @wildmissus

And beware of cowpats xxx FatDog

And beware of cowpats xxx FatDog[/quote]

Oohhh that's the reason!!!

I'm coming up on my first fastiversary this week and it's been a good year for me. Starting at a weight of 226# and a BMI of over 32 it of course was a no-brainer that a target BMI down in the 24-26 range was certainly going to be an improvement for me health-wise. As I get nearer to my goals I've reassessed and reassessed again what I want to hit. The target numbers have ranged from 165# to 185# (BMI of 23.7 to 26.6) over the past year, but I see that range converging now to 175-180# (BMI 25.1-25.9).

I have shifted my focus, and I suggest that others might want to try this as well, from BMI and body weight to body fat percentage. Before where I was obese there was no question of "fine-tuning" my target, only that I needed to lose a lot, and lose it at some pace (my pace was relatively slow compared to most, coming in at 0.65#/week, but it was fairly consistent up until the last 2-3 weeks or so) that was high enough to distinguish myself from that dreaded "plateau" word. But now I'm trying to get a better feel for my body fat percentage, and as I coast into the finish line (I'm thinking it will be another 6 months or so before I hit the zone where I want to maintain my weight rather than lose weight) I am trying to accurately estimate my body fat percentage through various means, such as waist measurements and a scale that does the conductivity measurement and BF calculation.

I might even treat myself to a dunk tank analysis at some point in the next few months. I do have a BF% target range of 14-17% in mind.

It looks like some of what carorees is coming up with points to limitations of using BMI as a target, and it may support using BF% instead. I think BMI is where we get unhelpful generalizations and "controversial" statements about how people look at different BMI levels. It is true that one person with a BMI of 23 or even 24 could look bony and too-skinny and even unhealthy (especially if they are tall), whereas another person with a BMI of 22 or even 21 could look curvy and voluptuous (especially if they are short).

BMI is a good short-hand rule of thumb guidance when you have 5+ points to lose, but when you are within 2-3 BMI points of your goal I'd suggest dropping BMI and body weight and using something else, such as waist measurements or how comfortably that one pair of jeans fit or body fat percentage.

Are there solid correlations between health problems and body fat percentage that would suggest a small target range that could be more-useful than BMI?

Sorry ladies

I don't have the time at present to expand on what I was trying to say but what I did say is equally applicable to both men and women ... except that it appears it's only middle-aged women who get stressed about 'can a target weight loss be too low?' and about the gaunt stuff. Also I use as shorthand BMI of 21/22 to indicate "slim" as it applies to the vast majority of average women and men .. very obviously there are men and women with heavy or light frames who fall outside the average category but I'd assume they'd already be aware of that?

What I was trying to say (in shorthand) was that, if you can get to a BMI of 24 then why not aim for the optimum of 21/22? I also find it strange that it appears I'm not allowed to express an opinion that the average middle-aged woman at a BMI of 21/22 are not excessively thin, skinny, gaunt, haggard, semi-emaciated, bony, etc , etc, etc. Anybody who avoids knee-jerk reactions about sexist stuff would appreciate that an average middle-aged woman at a BMI of 21/22 is curvy and athletic looking and, taking face and body shape overall, is usually considered to appear younger than her actual age. I'm also obviously very aware that women would much prefer that their men were not pot bellied, jowly, man-boobed etc etc and would prefer that the average man was in the BMI 21/22 range.

Regrettably it appears to me that there are large numbers here who don't like contrary views and only like the touchy/feely stuff. If the majority here are so sensitive that you wanna accuse me of unacceptable male fantasy views then I'm outta here ... I'll delete all my posts accordingly.

Please contintue to offer your opinions, inciteful or not.. Indeed the contraversial remarks makes us all think. Whether we agree with you or not @kencc a forum like this needs opinions from all schools. We should all respect your opinion and welcome it.

as to this BMI stuff, i think i have to research more about whether BMI is a good way to measure one's success in 5:2. I guess if i get to 67 to 69 range that will be a BMI of 22 or lower. We shall see.

Sue, thank you so much for your kind words! The feelings are indeed mutual. I'm not sure whether I should reply in public but since you asked me in public I will say this:
There are specific reasons why I -almost- left the forums and this thread proved to me that the reasons (reasons NOT people, I don't want any misunderstandings regarding that) are still here.
Lately life has given me lots of stress and sadness. Do try to understand that I don't want to be in places where I'm not 100% happy during my free time, which is quite short.
I'm here when I'm tagged, I'm here when I feel I should reply but I can't be here often because I don't feel about the forum the way I used to. Who knows, this might change. I never say never but sometimes it is very healthy to say "enough"!

Just to say happy to read you TML13

Thank-you @TML13 Yes I was guilty of misunderstanding you I thought it was a person who had caused you to pack your bags. Sorry
However I do realise that there are issues on this forum
( I wouldn't know about others because I only do this one)
I'm here primarily for weightloss and now as you know the health benefits are being welcomed by me, that said I also like to encourage newcomer's to make this WOL work now!! and not wait until old age because it's basically to late then so I support them and all just the way you have with me and hopefully still will my little Greek chick

:I'm here primarily for weightloss and now as you know the health benefits are being welcomed by me, that said I also like to encourage newcomer's to make this WOL work now!! and not wait until old age :

I too wish all young people could find this forum and WOL and never get fat in the first place.

I was guided by the increasing gauntness of my face in deciding that I had reached goal. I don't think that is laziness Kencc, but I'll put my hand up to vanity! The thing is, on an older person who has lost a lot of weight, the face, and the neck, and indeed the whole body, can get awfully scraggy. So I've chosen a weight for compromise: 8stone 13lb. That works out at a BMI 22.9 and stops my face just before the point where well-meaning acquaintances keep telling me not to lose any more. If I was aiming to get down to the weight I dreamed of in my youth, and briefly touched in my early 20s, my goal would have been 7 stone 12 lb, a BMI of about 20. That BMI of 20 looked good on me at age 20, and since even at my slimmest I still had chubby thighs, possibly a BMI of 19 would have looked even better, as long as I had a boob job after I reached it! And maybe if I had never gained weight, a BMI of 20 would still look good on me at age 59. But to get back down there after having peaked at a BMI in the 30s - well, what was left of my tits would be hanging below my belt, alongside the curtains of skin dangling from my arms! I'd try, even so, if the health benefits were really obvious, but I don't think any of the stats really sell a BMI target under 23. There are much greater health gains to be made by upping the level of exercise, which is something I still have to work on.

Also, having had too many friends and relatives go through treatment for cancer recently (many of whom had been models of healthy lifestyles before their illness, BTW), I regard my remaining chubby bits more kindly now. At the age of 59, I can envisage the possibility that something will come along and rob me of the ability to eat for a while, and that I'll be grateful for a bit of a buffer then.

Sue, you are right. The cause of packing my bags was a person. But the actual reason why I left and I keep away is more of a concept, a situation, that I cannot function in.

My support to you and to whoever else needs it is endless and that won't change. I will always be here when a member needs my opinion, my encouragement or even a wake-up call if they are snoozing instead of 5:2ing. When I said that I made true friends here, I meant every letter of every word!!! And that won't change, no way, never.

I'm coming up on my first fastiversary this week and it's been a good year for me. Starting at a weight of 226# and a BMI of over 32 it of course was a no-brainer that a target BMI down in the 24-26 range was certainly going to be an improvement for me health-wise. As I get nearer to my goals I've reassessed and reassessed again what I want to hit. The target numbers have ranged from 165# to 185# (BMI of 23.7 to 26.6) over the past year, but I see that range converging now to 175-180# (BMI 25.1-25.9).

I have shifted my focus, and I suggest that others might want to try this as well, from BMI and body weight to body fat percentage. Before where I was obese there was no question of "fine-tuning" my target, only that I needed to lose a lot, and lose it at some pace (my pace was relatively slow compared to most, coming in at 0.65#/week, but it was fairly consistent up until the last 2-3 weeks or so) that was high enough to distinguish myself from that dreaded "plateau" word. But now I'm trying to get a better feel for my body fat percentage, and as I coast into the finish line (I'm thinking it will be another 6 months or so before I hit the zone where I want to maintain my weight rather than lose weight) I am trying to accurately estimate my body fat percentage through various means, such as waist measurements and a scale that does the conductivity measurement and BF calculation.

I might even treat myself to a dunk tank analysis at some point in the next few months. I do have a BF% target range of 14-17% in mind.

It looks like some of what carorees is coming up with points to limitations of using BMI as a target, and it may support using BF% instead. I think BMI is where we get unhelpful generalizations and "controversial" statements about how people look at different BMI levels. It is true that one person with a BMI of 23 or even 24 could look bony and too-skinny and even unhealthy (especially if they are tall), whereas another person with a BMI of 22 or even 21 could look curvy and voluptuous (especially if they are short).

BMI is a good short-hand rule of thumb guidance when you have 5+ points to lose, but when you are within 2-3 BMI points of your goal I'd suggest dropping BMI and body weight and using something else, such as waist measurements or how comfortably that one pair of jeans fit or body fat percentage.

Are there solid correlations between health problems and body fat percentage that would suggest a small target range that could be more-useful than BMI?

I responded to this yesterday, but my response disappeared somehow…

Anyway… I'm also curious about body fat percentage. I've been a bit disappointed that mine isn't any lower than it is (though I hesitate to take the number on my scales too seriously because I am unsure of its accuracy). This is something I want to work on. I've started lifting weights at the gym to tone up and hopefully gain some muscle. This should help with maintenance. If it causes further weight loss without making me look bonier, so be it, but that isn't my goal anymore.

Such a fascinating thread, can't think how I missed it when the debate was at its height.

Anyway I was ruminating about my goal weight - we have to put something in the Progress Tracker and I wondered how people decided on theirs, mine was from a weight I had been long ago. I noticed that it was only in the last post that muscle was mentioned. For women it seems a straight fight between being fat or being scrawny and therefore finding the happy medium, and yet muscle is so important to older women and doing some weight lifting can prevent bone loss - remember "Strong women stay young"?

I wonder why there is this prejudice against women who are more muscular than the norm? Even though people express scorn at the physique of male bodybuilders or heavy weight lifters there is far more venom against women who do this. I do not practice
either, but for the sake of my bones and old-age fitness I am prepared to live with being a bit heavier and aim for lean not thin (fortunately I have always been a bit of a chubby cheeks!)