The FastDay Forum

Two days ago I had to take the ambulance to the emergency ward with extreme pain in my groin area above the left thigh.

I had been working out at the gym at 6 am in the morning, leg exercises. I alternate between running 5-10 km and working out at the gym, upper body or lower body, stomach and back every time.

At around 4 PM I felt a slight pain and stifness in the iliacus area, tried to stretch it, some massage but wasn't too bothered. During the following hour it got worse and I ended up screaming with pain, unable to control myself. My girlfriend at last got home with some prescription free pain killer, ibuprofen based. It had no effect.

At last we called an ambulance, I was pale white, sweating and shivering like I was going into shock, cramping uncontrollably which worsened the pain. From 1-10 I would say the pain was around 8, I could still at least talk and function. Cleary the worst pain I have ever felt.

The ambulance guys gave me 10 mg of morphine, but by then the worst of the pain had subsided after 3 hours.

Anyway, in the end after CT scan and various tests it was concluded I had suffered an internal bleeding in my iliacus muscle, the muscle pushing the leg forward when walking, https://www.google.se/search?q=iliacus&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FCJqUqzkKKHv4gTe2IG4Cg&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=993

An iliacus hematoma, it had also spread up to the psoas major in the abdomen.

The doctors, all of them, including their own "House" seemed quite perplexed. From what I've now read the condition is extremely rare if you're not taking anti coagulatory medicines or suffer from haemophilia. It has been reported as trauma related with young people, but I'm 48 years old. They were surprised to say the least.

After 24 hours at the hospital they sent me home, and said I'd probably be fully recovered in 3-4 weeks. I hope so, even though I can clearly feel neurological symptoms in my quadriceps and walk with a limp. It is getting better, but possibly surgery would have been a better option to get rid of the blood which really has no place to go. It's a controversial area apparently.

I'm just thinking if my diet with low carb and/or 5:2 could have had an influence on my propensity for bleeding? Does fasting affect how much we bleed, or could it be that the low carb thing make you bleed easier?

What about your exercise regime being included in with the question? Just a thought!

Clearly I wouldn't have had the bleeding if I hadn't been exercising, but I still don't think I have been working out extremely hard. Obviously I have to be a lot more careful in the future though. I guess you gain muscle strength faster than your veins and ligaments get stronger.

Actually I suspect a specific rotary torso machine at the gym as the main cause, http://www.exercise.wsu.edu/resistance/display.aspx?id=341

But I still suspect my diet might have something to do with it, does anyone else notice bleeding more easily when for example brushing teeth or so?

What a horrible experience, and glad you are now improving.
But no, I haven't noticed any changes.

It was just a suggestion about the exercise as I can't fathom how 5:2 and low carb can have an effect on bleeding. It will be interesting though Michael what the nerdy people here think? To answer your question about bleeding nil here in over 7 months of 5:2

Oh boy. Sounds dreadful. I suppose they didn't state the cause then, eg muscle tear. I briefly scanned the "are low carb diets killing Sweden" thread, and vaguely recall something about clotting, but I guess to know for sure, you will need to get some bloods done. Wishing you a speedy recovery Michael.

Hi michael, I hope you're feeling better. I can't remember it clearly but didn't Dr M do something in his documentary, were he cut his arm and timed how long he bled for. I think he bled for longer after fasting, indicating that the blood was thinner. Hope this helps
Dee

Gosh, how scary! I've not noticed a change in bleeding/coagulation and I've had two surgeries (pins in; pins out) while doing 5:2/4:3 (though only low carb on fast days).

Please take care.

Really nasty experience for you there @Michael, hope you recover soon (but please don't rush things).

I'm a symptomatic carrier of haemophilia (I had a few bleeds, including muscle bleeds, when I was younger and my clotting factors were much lower) - low-carb / fasting has not caused any bleeding problems for me at all... Your clotting factors would need to take a serious nose-dive for a spontaneous (i.e. unprovoked) bleed methinks, and I've not seen anything in the low-carb / fasting literature to indicate that this happens.

Don't worry about the blood - that will get reabsorbed over time (think of it as a whopping great big bruise). All the best, FatDog.

[carorees]

Oh that's dreadful...how scary and horrible.

My first thought in relation to the low carb issue is not so much the low carbs but what kind of fats are you eating? A diet high in fish oil (or omega-3 I guess) is know to prolong the clotting time and so can risk bleeding. Strenuous exercise causes micro-tears in the muscle; if your clotting time is prolonged this could cause bleeding. Also, do you take aspirin often? Aspirin increases the clotting time. Combining both fish oil and aspirin has been known to cause bleeding problems (link).

[carieoates]

@FatDog great response. I did have a quick research about this when I read the post earlier, (haematology is my thing ) it would take a hell of a lot to induce haemorrhage. As our Caroline says, aspirin, anticoagulants, muscle tears or coagulation (blood clotting) problems could cause this. I believe that you may have popped a muscle whilst pumping that machine at the gym.

Yes, the experience of being unable to move, control my screaming for three hours, and just wishing to pass out was quite new to me. At least I got a prescription for stronger pain killers to have ready if something like this ever happens again.

The doctors said I wasn't supposed to rest, but rather be moving. I did today, perhaps a bit too much as I got incredibly tired afterwards, perhaps some kind of anemia? Also my knee has started to swell a little, so perhaps there's still bleeding going on from that muscle tear. But there's no pain unless I do something stupid like trying to lift my left leg by any other means than with my hands.

I am a bit worried about potential damage to the femoral nerve, despite what the doctors said. I'm going to see another specialist about it.

I've been eating a lot of omega 3 rich fats, this flax seed bread of mine, quite a lot of fat fish etc. It might have had an impact together with that weird torso rotating machine at the gym. I probably used it too hard, even if it was three days before the incident.

Oh that's dreadful...how scary and horrible.

My first thought in relation to the low carb issue is not so much the low carbs but what kind of fats are you eating? A diet high in fish oil (or omega-3 I guess) is know to prolong the clotting time and so can risk bleeding. Strenuous exercise causes micro-tears in the muscle; if your clotting time is prolonged this could cause bleeding. Also, do you take aspirin often? Aspirin increases the clotting time. Combining both fish oil and aspirin has been known to cause bleeding problems (link).

No aspirin or similar drugs no, but yes, there has been lots of omega 3 in my diet. Possibly also the fact that I drank a generous amount of alcohol the Saturday before my Monday morning workout.