The FastDay Forum

Such touching and poignant stories being told in the tent!

What a painful experience, @chook! I'm so sorry that happened to you, that really was so unfair, and obviously had big consequences for you. Now you know & recognize that, I hope you can hold and comfort that little 3-year-old, and reassure her that she's "just herself" and wonderful and perfect just as she is, and that she doesn't have to accept a stupid label, even from an adult! Something like that might work towards some healing for you, I hope!

And goodness, @barbarita and @bracken, it's a real lesson how trauma gets passed down from generation to generation, unfortunately, so we are all victims of it. Hopefully we can pick up our courage to work to break the pattern for ourselves and our children!

I too have (had) a terrible relationship with food and have been aware for a LONNNNG time that it was my solace. There's also an element (as others have said) about self sabotage - and almost punishing oneself with food. I have known for a long time that I used eating as a comfort but it has taken me until 50 to find a WOE that has somehow given me the tools to be able to resist the urge to do that. I, like others have said, had a mother who (looking back) had her own problems with eating and body image and was never terribly happy. I was put on diets from the age of about 9 and always made to feel that I would be better if I were a 'normal' size and therefore not lovable as I wasn't, quite clearly. And that's not self pity - it's just working it out over years. I did some psychotherapy training a while ago and as part of it we had to have twice weekly personal therapy - when I found my (brilliant)training therapist she asked me what my earliest memory was. And it involved a feeling of shame. So I know all about that too. I still don't like myself very much, but at least these days I know why!!!

An online friend gave me this link http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
a few years ago when I had the final permanent break up with my mother. We had driven to Croatia on holiday with her. The circumstances of the breakup meant I packed the bags of myself, hubby and kids and left in the car at 11pm at night and left my mother to find her own way home. She was well off enough to afford a taxi to the airport and tickets home. I had even offered to pay for the tickets myself to ensure she went home with my son who would drive her from the airport to her door as well, but she refused saying her 'real' daughter would help her out.

But having Autism in the family I can now see the OCD and other traits in her and myself. To be told all your life from very little that having kids ruined her life, that she wished she had never had us etc. wasn't conducive to a healthy self image. As far as my relationship with my mother went, I had ruined her life by being born. She had only had kids because it was expected of her (peer image was important to her). When my younger sister was born, she could actually love my sister because her life was already ruined by the 'mistake' (me), so she was free to lavish love and support on my sister. I spent my whole life trying to live up to expectations when the goal posts were moved every time I got near or achieved something.

Having 2 disabled sons was anthema to my mother as it threw disgrace onto her, it sullied her reputation and her reputation and the tidiness of her hair were more important than anyone else in her life.

[Debs]

I heartily endorse what jools7 said, the more we can understand our own problems and where they stem from, the better we can make sure that we don't pass them on to another generation. As I now know, it is common that issues with our parents are started a generation farther back. I've yet to meet a family that doesn't have some sort of crap going on, I just hope people on here are strong enough to find help for themselves.
I'm sure that this is part of the reason I decided not to have kids with what I experienced growing up.
So grab those crampons, find a firm foothold, rope yourself to a friend and head for the summit!!

I thought about that discussion this morning and with all that happened I think there's also the question of my estranged "sister".I mean, I was born 9 years after that, nearly died after birth, a nurse even told my mother I was dead, went to a premature hospital for several months, after that had convulsions, mononucleosis, and she hated me from the start because I had a lot of not desired, trust me, attention and never forgot me for being born basically. I am not being over dramatic, she told it to me, by accident (thought I couldn't hear her, so I know she was truthful, for once

Do you know it's possible for somebody to hold a grudge for a rape ? Because it's so nice to have your virginity stolen by a "man" who force you to have sex, and even better to be scared out of your mind to be pregnant or worse.

It hurt me for years until I decided that enough was enough and cut all ties with her. It was 8 years ago. She was part of the food problem, for sure.

Who knew I would prefer being nearly 40 to when I was 20.....

[Debs]

Thank you Manderley for being willing to share your painful story and how you are coming out the other side. I hope this all helps people understand their problematic relations with food, family and fear of loving yourselves.

Loving yourselves and others. I would sum up by learning to let go, which is a difficult thing to do. I had a discussion with a friend who can't find a man, at all, and she said it's because of how she looks, who she is. I think it's more because she doesn't open up, compromise, and doesn't like herself. A lot begins in the mind, that's one of the biggest lesson's I learned last year.Our body reacts to it and people react to it as well.

Gosh I need to stop reading intellectual essais

Wow, I just want to honour the bravery of all of us who are sharing their stories here! Here's to us all!!! Although I haven't been able to respond in words to everyone's story, I just want you all to know I'm here and I'm listening! And hoping for healing for us all!

Hello fellow Mountaineers. Great tent, great name. The name reminds me of a line in David Whytes poem "everything is waiting for you" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2NfrNt9EU

"..The stairs are your mentor of things to come..."

This tent is like walking into something sacred. And yet the doors swung wide open and the suns pouring in.

Picks up the talking stick .....(wishes i could just literally camp here and catch everyone's sharing like treasures).

I'm into digging. And I like to dig into the things that are happening in my life now. The big news for me is the phenomenon of fasting, and its flow on effects. Fasting seems to be my mentor at the moment. I feel fascinated by the way its teaching me. It seems to be mysteriously giving me more mindfulness in all sorts of places in my life.

No wonder the world religions are into it. I feel like we've been given a gift with fasting being part of the solution. I agree with whats being said here, the story of why i'm big and how i live my life as a big woman is very very complex. I do like the conversation going into complex places. There is no ONE way to undo a Gordian knot.
I think I'll stop there..thanks soooo much for the tent it's really appreciated ...I'll try to drop by when I can.
warmly
Jo

Welcome Jo - it's lovely to have you with us!

I am just nipping out from the comfort of this tent to go to a coffee morning. Cakes will abound...but it is a fasting day, so only coffee will pass my lips! When I return, I would like to talk about mothers.....but sadly, not in a particularly good way. Bet I won't be totally alone, either...

Talk soon!

Cor..but there were some scrummy looking cakes at the coffee morning......but all I did was have a little polite sniff of the double chocolate one!!

One of the subjects I would like to explore whilst here....is mothers. I myself have a very difficult relationship with mine - she is most definitely narcissistic. This I have come to realise only in the past year (have devoured books on the subject to help me cope). It goes against the grain to think that it is possible to have a mother who is jealous & constantly critical of you, resents your friends & resents you living your own life....your way! But, it is definitely possible......

The effect of this on a child is a resounding dent in your self esteem. I have become a total people pleaser, with impossibly high standards (self-imposed). I put myself at the very bottom of the pile in all things & have no idea how to be kind to myself.....other than through comfort eating (which ultimately is no kindness anyway).

Having or voicing an opinion was not allowed when I was a child, so I grew up knowing it was best only to "think" things.......not express them. As a result, I am quite slow to anger, instead turning that anger inwards......& becoming depressed.

I am adept at biting my lip where my mother is concerned....in fact it's a minor miracle I even have a lip left, ha ha! I just let the criticisms & hurtful comments pass over me without retort, but the damage they do doesn't go un-felt.

She doesn't really like me losing weight - because as long as I resemble her, she won't have to take any responsibility for being overweight herself......people will just think it's in our genes. In April, she is turning 80 & has 2 parties planned to celebrate. The other day, I was round her house & she was showing me 3 new outfits she had bought ready for her parties. I dutifully admired them in all their size 22 glory (she's actually a 24, but won't admit it).....whereupon she offered me the pick of the rest of her wardrobe if I was stuck for something to wear - I am a 16/18!!!! First I bit my lip, then I thanked her but declined, saying I was going to treat myself to something new....nearer the time.

Now, it's possible that some of you might not think that is too awful. How about this outrageous comment that followed on Saturday, when I popped round to see her....I went to sit down in the lounge, in my favourite chair of hers. Remarked how comfy it was, and she replied:-

"Yes, that chair suits you. Small people get lost in it....but it's alright for you"

Honestly!!!! I wouldn't mind, but it is only a medium sized chair in the first place....

What's that about?? Once again, I smothered my annoyance....but mentally resolved to lose so much weight that she will never again offer me any of her clothes! So yes, dear friends, I am going to keep my mother in mind....whenever I am tempted to overindulge!

Do you think that will work?

Well done, @hazlenut20, for being able to smell the cakes only! I do find it's actually helpful to smell stuff, rather than feeling obliged to eat it - and I don't know whether anyone else has noticed this, but I really think fasting has changed my sense of smell - I have much stronger reactions to smells, either positive or negative, than I used to, and sometimes I don't even recognize the smell of, say, mushrooms cooking.

So good that you have recognized that your mother is the problem, not you. Those realizations take time & awareness. I'm so sorry that you have had to go through all that - how painful and difficult. I want to respond more and talk more about mothers when I get home from work, the topic deserves more to be said about it!

Hi all

Just wanted to pop in and say hi - I have enjoyed (if that's the right word) reading all your stories and am very humbled by the stuff some of you have had to go through. My mother is wonderful and so kind and lovely and her only fault with us and food was being too soft and not making us eat stuff we didn't like (although there were a few battles), with the result I was very fussy and wouldn't eat much by way of fruit & veg for years, making me put on weight.

Over the years I've 'taught' myself to eat fruit & veg & love it now. Although ironically I don't really dig sweetcorn, and it was one of the few veg I would eat when I was small (one of my first phrases was 'more corns!').

Anyway I can't stay here long as I must pack to go on my jollies tomorrow for a few days in Iceland (eek!) so toodle pip and I will be back for more chin-stroking next week sometime!

[Debs]

Blast, just lost it all!
Poor hazelnut, being subjected to that, but as you well know by critising you, she is covering her own failures and hopes that you will fail too. But you aren't going to are you? In fact you will go to her 'Big' bash looking even slimmer and prove that you are better than that.

As I mentioned in a previous post, mine was quite the opposite, hating how she looked and being bullied so that she had no self esteem, and that passed on to me. I use her as my inspiration for losing weight, studying harder, standing up for myself (and boy do you have to here!), and trying to be what she wasn't. I had a fairly loveless childhood which compounded things and is probably partly why I don't have kids, but after nearly 50 years I have finally worked out my problems, almost!
As manderley says, I have tried to let go, and the way I have done that is by letting go of my parents.

@Hazelnut20
So very much of what you said rings bells with me. I still find it very hard to stand up for myself. I am usually very depreciating because I was not allowed to boast or any time I was boastful my sisters accomplishments were brought up to trump mine. My mother even persuaded me not to go to college as I 'wasn't able to cope for myself living away from home'. Yet only 6 months later I moved out and moved 300 miles away. Then when my sister wanted to go to college and then university there was no limit to how much my mother helped her.

I tried, I really did try to keep in contact with my mother and the rest of my family who live 110 miles away, but in the 15 years we have lived down here my mother only visited 4 times, my sister once, the rest of the family never at all. Yet I visited them 2 to 6 times a year.

I think my main gripe is the lack of equality, though I don't expect exact equality that doesn't work with totally different personalities. For example. I am very proud of my daughter Jade, she went to college got distinctions in everything she did. She went on to work and got qualifications there and is now living and working in Dubai of all places. My son is totally different, but no less deserving of my pride. He went straight from school into work, where he qualified as a chef, he then has major medical problems where we nearly lost him. Other medical problems and finding out he actually has/is Aspergers have caused him depression which meant he had to return home. His battles against all that is worth as much pride as normal employment progression.
But I didn't get that. I didn't go to college or university, I wasted my life. I had children, I wasted my life. I married my husband (of 23 years), who is now disabled, I am wasting my life, Home Educating my youngest was wasting my life and ruining his. All negative,negative, negative no positives. The only time my life was approved was when we, hubby and I, ran a company that had high street presence in the form of a shop, then I was worthwhile, I was someone who she could be proud of because I was a company director with a shop who's photo's she could pass around to her cronies and be prideful off. Even then there was always a snide comment usually along the lines of 'She's doing so well, shame about her weight/ hair/ kids/ shame she's got her fathers looks' etc.

I ended up being a comfort eating, loving the food and the high it gave me, but hating myself and my weak willed personality. It has taken 3 years without contact for me to start appreciating myself, for the positives in my life to outweigh a lifetime of negatives. A complete cut off was the only way.

I hope this is not turning out to be a whinge against my mother, I do hope its helpful to others to show how 'toxic' some relationships can be and that sometimes, to save your own sanity and health you have to cut that person out of your life.