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Another new joinee here, though like many i have been following the 5:2 concept since August-ish. So, firstly, hello!

Perhaps a little more unusually, i was not drawn the idea due to a desire to lose weight (tbh, if anything i wouldnt mind putting a bit on) - i have always been around 21-22 on the BMI chart, dont go to the gym, but do a bit of aerobic exercise each week as well as doing a few weights at home and am perfectly happy with my body as it is. I actually chose to give this thing a go for the healthy mind + staying younger longer benefits. Which are unfortunately the things which are that much harder to track. On a day to day basis, these things cannot be measured, and the lack of any real proof of the benefits means i am down to almost blind faith - which isnt something i am accustomed to being entirely unreligious!

With such intangible benefits, there have been times when i have asked myself if following this lifestyle is actually worthwhile. I love eating, and all of my favoured social activities involve usually vast amounts of calories, so aside from the occasional moderate wave of hunger that we all know and love, i am also up against the loss of 20% of my social life! haha. But thankfully, and this is another very big draw to 5:2 for me, on the feast days, i really go to town. cheese on toast just before bedtime? absolutely! pop in to MCDs everytime i pass one? yep! love it! :p

So i guess the question is, to those who have researched this whole thing somewhat more than myself, weight loss benefits aside, how confident would you be that there really are ANY significant benefits of the sort i hope for? i know i am asking for you to assign some kind of value to that which is impossible to value, or nail jelly to a wall if you will, but i am asking it all the same! :)

Along with that tricky to answer question, one or two more....... I have found 5:2 fasting (600 cals) to be very manageable - dare i say it; easy, but i am not sure if this has been down to a partial cheat. We all know water is very good for you, and largely, the more the better - i have always consumed a lot of water, and i find that on my fasting days, drinking water can make things easier. Drinking quite a bit regularly through the day keeps hunger at bay, though of course it necessitates frequent trips to the loo (all exercise i guess!), but the way that water really helps is the one big meal (i am not a 3 meal sort on fasting days, though im sure this would work equally well in that instance).... but yeah, just pre meal, i drink a good litre of water, and then another litre during the meal. Doing this i can be quite full on 2-300 cals after zero calories for 24+ hours. I often find i cant even finish my beans on toast (a fave for fast days) due to feeling too full. So, the question is, does avoiding the hunger by drinking water throughout the day negate the mental benefits? On Horizon, a lot was made of the link between the noggin and the belly - you feel hungry, your brain tries to think hard to get food, thus your brain is exercised and thus you can still do crosswords when you are 150. Without the hunger, am i going to be putting down my pen by the time i hit 70? haha.

Anyway, dont want to drag out my hello post any longer. Thoughts and comments on the questions will all be happily received, even if you arent too confident of the answers you provide.

Brief bit of info incase relevant to the above, i am 28, male, about 6 foot and about 11 stone.

Cheers - Dazz
No the water makes no difference in my opinion. When you don't consume enough calories to meet your energy needs, your body first uses up its glycogen stores, but the glycogen stores need to be replaced, so it burns fat. Burning fat produces ketones which have been shown to increase brain derived neurotrophic factor (in animal studies). This hormone simulates the growth of new neurons. Also, I don't that drinking water will alter the production of the hormones ghrelin, leptin and adiponectin which are all bound up with fat mobilisation.
Welcome to the forum! It's nice to have people with some 5:2 experience join us newbies :-)
Darren

It is interesting you are doing the 5:2 diet with a BMI of 21/22. I am very interested in the health benefits of the 5:2 diet however I struggle to see how it is manageable in the long run for people with a healthy weight. I am currently doing the 5:2 diet to lose weight however I don't have all that much to lose (BMI 27) compared to some people. So I am going to do it until I reach my target weight and then re-evaluate. I do think it should be a healthier way to eat as it mimics ancestral habits however I'm yet to be convinced.

I would like to point out that there is no research on intermittent fasting on people with a normal BMI as it has been studied as a weight loss strategy. The limited number of studies that have been carried out are with obese participants. So the results are only applicable to obese populations (weight loss and metabolic parameters). The metabolic parameters of healthy weight people are generally in the healthy range and there is nothing to suggest that fasting will improve this further. However if you are maintaining a stable healthy weight I suppose you are doing no harm.

I’m actually convinced that a couple of my friends, who maintain a healthy weight, employ a feast and famine eating regime naturally. So maybe it is the way to maintain a healthy weight.

Good luck and good health.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16051710 study of men with avge BMI 25.7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17374948 BMI <25 - men & women during Ramadan

References for non-obese subjects
Cheers for the welcomes and the responses so far.

Carorees, i would be lying if i said i understood all of your message, but the conclusion seemed to be that my water drinking wasnt self defeating, so that much i like! haha

Echo, i assume you watched the horizon program that seems to have united us all and brought us here originally? While it was perhaps somewhat light on true (in depth empiricism) science and quite heavy on singular examples, those singular examples were quite striking, and from memory, not all came from the obesity angle. Im thinking of the american guy following a CR lifestyle, who was a similar build / age to our good doctor, but his insides were deemed to be that of a much younger man. Then there was Faujah Singh (spelling from memory, so apologies if i made it up!), who was quite amazing aswell. Both of these were CR as opposed to IF, but i am hoping for an element of carryover, which seemed to be hinted at from the tone of the show. And of course the lab mice, 40% longer life sounds good to me! Oh to be a mouse! :p

So yes, i fully agree that most of the benefits of this lifestyle are parallel to weigh loss from an initial state of being overweight, i would like to think there is enough in there for those of us that arent worried about our weight to still give this a go. This being said, i would so love for a true study of people in my kind of situation to come out giving cast iron guarantees that i will still be playing badminton when i am 100. Of course, i wont be holidng my breath for that though.

As for weight maintenance, i have perhaps lost a few pounds, but i am certainly not worried about that - i am quite confident that i could put it back on while still 5:2ing without much issue - as i said, i do so love my food, and the worse for me it is, the better i like it. While i dont salt my foods, a lot of the processed garbage i eat is high in salt, so the additional leeching of salt from my body from the extra water consumption which goes with my style of 5:2ing is a nice side benefit.

on the weight issue, while as i said, i am basically hanging around the same happy weight i have always been, i do like to look nice and toned, and while my weight hasnt changed greatly, i think the shape of my body perhaps has. While i have been doing plenty of exercise for several years, i think the continued exercise in tandem with fasting days has provided added effect - this could be all in my mind, but if you look at any of the stuff Brad Pilon puts on the web about his body sculpting past (no, i really dont take it that far!), i think perhaps this all bears out - fasting isnt just about shrinking the body, it can be a useful tool in shaping the body also.

This being said, i think if it was shown there was no link with the "staying younger longer, for body + mind", i would pass on the 5:2. i dont find it hard, but i do sometimes find it tedious not being able to go to the pub or eat out when i might otherwise have liked to.

While i have been writing this i have noticed the new message with a few links to trials with smaller participants - i will check those out, so thanks for the links Phil, though to be honest a lot of those trials are over techy for me, so if someone else were to wish to summarise the excessively techy bits for me, i will compare your understanding to mine and see if they are at all alike! :)

Cheers all, and thanks to mookie (was it mookie, or something similar?) for this useful tool!
PhilT wrote: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16051710 study of men with avge BMI 25.7


This study is very encouraging but only follows participants for 15 days, so they won't be able to say from this if it is sustainable in the long run.

I don't disagree that IF seems to show improvements in metabolic parameters. As I’ve said I think it is probably a healthier way to eat but it is only possible to live your life according to 5:2 if you can maintain energy balance in the long run.
PhilT wrote: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17374948 BMI <25 - men & women during Ramadan


My only concern about looking at Ramadan studies is the researcher are not controlling the eating regime. In the likes of Varady’s research participants are fed in the lab.
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