The FastDay Forum

OOps T4 !

I've tried dessicated thyroid - most GPs and endocrinologists in the UK refuse to prescribe it on the NHS (not sure if it's even available on NHS prescription any more) - it used to be the drug of choice before Thyroxine. I understand there are a couple of labs in the UK that produce it and it can be obtained through private prescription from your GP. I obtained mine from Canada - Nature-Throid. Dessicated thyroid hormone has both T4 and T3, along with calcitonin which is the closest replacement there is to the ratio of hormones supplied by the human thyroid gland. DTH is usually derived from porcine thyroid extract.

I did quite well on DTH but then went to see a UK thyroid specialist who thought I might be better with T3 replacement and so I've been taking that now for about 4 months. Again, it is very difficult to get T3 prescribed on the NHS due to cost, although my GP now prescribes it for me after a monumental battle with the local PCT trust.

I have to say that swapping thyroid hormone has made no difference to my energy levels or my ability to lose weight, unfortunately. The main benefit has been in getting rid of some of the unwanted side effects from Thyroxine. I have no thyroid gland so my experience might be quite different to someone who has different thyroid issues.

Good places to find information on thyroid replacement hormone are internet sites http://www.Stopthethyroidmadness.com and http://www.healthunlocked.co.uk.

After 30 years on Thyroxine I swapped this year to T3 which I am finding suits me much better. The NHS do not approve and are threatening to stop prescribing (down to cost) - that's a whole different issue and one I feel very strongly about so let's not go there!!

Thanks for posting this. I had a sub-total thyroidectomy in 1980. I changed to T3 + T4 a few years ago. I'm in Australia and I pay privately for this medication, and like you have found it much better.

I read somewhere that after ten or so years Thyroxine starts to lose its efficacy, and that had happened to me after 20 years. The doctors kept telling me it didn't matter if I had a low count as I was in the reference range. Well, have I got news for them - it makes a huge difference to my liveliness and happiness to be in the centre of the reference range.

It can be more challenging to lose weight if your thyroid is underactive but it can be done. I've struggled with my weight for years and have been doing 4:3 for the past 4 weeks and have lost 10lbs so am very pleased.

After 4 months on the 5:2 diet, sticking to it rigidly, and eating sensibly in between, I've lost only a kilo (2.2 pounds) per month, even the first month and am wondering if the thyroid situation makes a difference, or is it just my stupid body trying to stay fat. I've never understood why I'm overweight anyway. I don't overeat.

But actually a kilo a month is 12kg a year, which ain't bad. And I do feel good. So I'm sticking with it.

After 4 months on the 5:2 diet, sticking to it rigidly, and eating sensibly in between, I've lost only a kilo (2.2 pounds) per month, even the first month and am wondering if the thyroid situation makes a difference, or is it just my stupid body trying to stay fat. I've never understood why I'm overweight anyway. I don't overeat.

But actually a kilo a month is 12kg a year, which ain't bad. And I do feel good. So I'm sticking with it.

I think thyroid problems affect the weight gain/weight loss axis dramatically in ways that are not not really understood by the scientific community, never mind the individuals experiencing it. I don't believe it's simply a matter of overeating in terms of how many calories you ingest but much more important is what you eat and when you eat it.

I found that the weight loss on 5:2 was abysmally slow for me - I have a lot of weight to lose and need to do it sooner rather than later because of mobility problems. I switched to 4:3 and this has given me a much better rate of loss - I do stall occasionally but then it seems to pick up again.

As you say, a kilo a month is 12kg a year and that for someone with thyroid issues is an achievement. I'm sure changing from total reliance of Thyroxine has helped with this. Well done and good luck on the rest of your journey.

Hi Marla and Saj, thanks for your posts, and well done both for sticking with the diet and remaining positive, it's been a relief to hear others struggle too, though obviously I'd rather we didn't... I still have my thyroid, it' a case of opposites in that mine is enlarged (about 50% bigger than it should be) yet under active. I'm mid-high range now that I've been on t4 for a while but my symptoms have been getting worse, hence the thought to try dth. My weight loss has been slow to non-existent, one week it's down next week back to same as before, down, up, level etc. my progress says I'm losing 0.5lb per week but honestly it could be back to where I began next week.

However, reading your posts makes me feel good enough to keep going, eating 3000 less kcal per week has got be doing good somewhere at least.

S

Stoat, I found your post interesting - well, they're all of interest. I had an enlarged thyroid, which was why I had a sub-total thyroidectomy in 1980, because I felt as though I was choking all the time. Maybe you could try eating something slightly different on your fast days? I eat all vegetables/salad with a very little reduced fat fetta cheese. And you could try cutting carbs a bit on your normal days?

I developed food intolerances due to ME in the 90s and now I can't eat a lot of carbs due to intolerances to all cereals except rice, and I think that helps me maintain weight, if not lose it.

It's a juggling act, really. Good luck with your efforts!

I have underactive thyroid too and am on 200 mcg levothyroxine. Started 4:3 2 weeks ago and lost 4.8 lbs in 2 weeks .. of course I am expecting it to slow down in the coming weeks, but so far am very very pleased ... Very interested in reading through others' experience of 4:3 /5:2 with hypothyroidism ..

I have had an underactive thyroid for about 15 years sand Ive been taking 100mg thyroxine all that time. I began the 5:2 fast diet 7 weeks ago and lost 10lbs. I had a routine blood test done last week and today was informed that my thyroid was high and my medication was reduced to 75mg. I'm taking this as good news. What do you think?

This thread has been a real eye-opener. Many thanks for all the info on here.

My wife was diagnosed with an ineffective thyroid 33 years ago after the birth of our youngest child - and she's been on thyroxine ever since.

We've never felt the need to question the prescribing of thyroxine - in fact I heard a medic recently saying that if he only took one drug, it would be thyroxine, since it was the closest mimic of any hormone we had. It was completely safe. So to hear that it isn't, is quite a shock.

We've never been told of the long term effects of taking this drug. Or indeed of any alternatives.

My wife is another one finding it very difficult to lose weight - even under this regime. She has lost some, but it's been very slow.

You've given us much food for thought, folks - and it's going to take a while to digest (sorry!) all the info on here.

Thanks again, B&W

This thread has been a real eye-opener. Many thanks for all the info on here.

My wife was diagnosed with an ineffective thyroid 33 years ago after the birth of our youngest child - and she's been on thyroxine ever since.

We've never felt the need to question the prescribing of thyroxine - in fact I heard a medic recently saying that if he only took one drug, it would be thyroxine, since it was the closest mimic of any hormone we had. It was completely safe. So to hear that it isn't, is quite a shock.

We've never been told of the long term effects of taking this drug. Or indeed of any alternatives.

My wife is another one finding it very difficult to lose weight - even under this regime. She has lost some, but it's been very slow.

You've given us much food for thought, folks - and it's going to take a while to digest (sorry!) all the info on here.

Thanks again, B&W

Thyroxine is not the closest mimic of any hormone we have - the thyroid predominantly produces T4, T3, T2 and T1; Thyroxine is T4 only and does not contain any of the other thyroid hormones. Without getting too technical, T4 is a kind of 'storage' hormone, whose main function is to convert to the active thyroid hormone T3. T3 affects every cell in your body and promotes good health. The problem is that for a large number of people Thyroxine doesn't convert an adequate amount of T3 and so they are left with many of the hypothyroid symptoms - tiredness, feeling the cold, weight gain and the inability to lose weight, hair loss, loss of libido etc etc.

For many people Thyroxine works perfectly adequately and perhaps your wife is one of those people. For some it works ok for years and then the hypo symptoms start to creep back in. I don't think Thyroxine is 'unsafe' unless it's taken in excess so that you become hyper. As with all medication there can be side effects and this was my experience - after having taken Thyroxine for many years successfully I began to experience unwanted side effects, along with a return of hypothyroid symptoms.

My own personal experience is that I feel much better on T3 replacement therapy, but I have to be honest and say it has not made losing weight any easier. If your wife has no hypo symptoms other than difficulty losing weight, I think it very unlikely she will be prescribed anything but Thyroxine on the NHS, unless your GP is particularly enlightened and doesn't mind going into battle with the local PCT. If you would like more in depth discussion on the merits of various thyroid hormone replacement options, take a look at the links I've given in my post above which are thorough and illuminating.

I have had an underactive thyroid for about 15 years sand Ive been taking 100mg thyroxine all that time. I began the 5:2 fast diet 7 weeks ago and lost 10lbs. I had a routine blood test done last week and today was informed that my thyroid was high and my medication was reduced to 75mg. I'm taking this as good news. What do you think?

Sounds to me like your thyroid has been kickstarted into producing more of its own hormones. This can definitely happen and is excellent news for you - producing your own thyroid hormones is superior by far to taking a synthetic replacement. Hope the improvement continues - please let us know!

Marlathome, that's the best explanation of thyroid and the various Ts that I've ever seen. Thank you. It explains why thyroxine stopped working properly for me and why the T3/T4 supplement is so much better. Sadly, it hasn't helped weight loss, but I do have a lot more energy. In fact, the nutritional medicine 'treatment' I've been having since 2001 has revolutionised my whole life, especially mentally. Fine tuning of the body biochemistry. It's private and costs money, but I consider it investment in my health and at my age (72) that's a good thing. I can still write 3 novels a year because of the sparkling clear brain. (as Anna Jacobs) And I feel happier, literally.

[Tracieknits]

Well, I thought I would share what's been going on with me. I haven't lost any weight in 2 weeks, despite being very well behaved. I've also been complaining of the cold a lot. So on Thursday I went and got my bloodwork done early -- lo and behold, my thyroid levels were too low!!

I actually have Grave's Disease, which makes the thyroid hyperactive, so I have to take methamizole to slow my thyroid down. The dose that had been working perfectly for the last 8 months is now too much, and they reduced my meds from 20mg/day to 15mg/day. My last blood test was in early January and it showed my levels as perfect.

What does this mean? I'm not really sure. I went through this all once before, so I can't say for sure that it's the 5:2 that has spurred my thyroid to behave a bit more. A few years ago, after my thyroid levels had been perfect while on meds for 9 months or so, my thyroid started to work properly and I was weaned off the meds over the following 9 months. I stayed med-free with a properly functioning thyroid for over a year, when it suddenly went hyper again.

But on the bright side, despite my thyroid levels being too low, I didn't gain any weight. So that's a good thing.

I totally know what you mean about how it can affect mood. I'm a grumpy pants right now, and my brain hasn't been working at full speed! hopefully I'll level out in a week or two of reduced meds. Next bloodcheck is in 6 weeks.

Marlathome, that's the best explanation of thyroid and the various Ts that I've ever seen. Thank you. It explains why thyroxine stopped working properly for me and why the T3/T4 supplement is so much better. Sadly, it hasn't helped weight loss, but I do have a lot more energy. In fact, the nutritional medicine 'treatment' I've been having since 2001 has revolutionised my whole life, especially mentally. Fine tuning of the body biochemistry. It's private and costs money, but I consider it investment in my health and at my age (72) that's a good thing. I can still write 3 novels a year because of the sparkling clear brain. (as Anna Jacobs) And I feel happier, literally.

Thank you for a very interesting and uplifting post, Saj!

Is your T3/T4 supplement NDT, or something different, and what is the 'nutritional medicine treatment you refer to? I'm still trying to get my thyroid hormone levels balanced and it's not easy - as you say, fine tuning of the body biochemistry. Some days I feel good, others I feel hypo again, so have more fine tuning myself to do. I'm a writer, too, and would be delighted if my output matched yours! My main problem is brain fog so I'd be very interested in hearing how you manage a 'sparkling clear brain'! How wonderful for you. I think you are absolutely right to invest in your health, if you can afford to do so - with good health everything is possible.

I'll add to the scientific data! I have taken 125mcg thyroxine for years, and started 5:2 this week. Will report back if there's any news!