The FastDay Forum

I too have under active thyroid, I have been taking 100 mcg for approx 17 years. I have lost 10.5 lbs in 6 weeks. The last two weeks I have lost 2lbs each week, am wondering if my levels could be changing. I received notification from docs this morning that I am due my levels checked so I will let you know in next few weeks how I get on (it will take me a couple of weeks to go for blood test!!)

Is your T3/T4 supplement NDT, or something different, and what is the 'nutritional medicine treatment you refer to? I'm still trying to get my thyroid hormone levels balanced and it's not easy - as you say, fine tuning of the body biochemistry. Some days I feel good, others I feel hypo again, so have more fine tuning myself to do. I'm a writer, too, and would be delighted if my output matched yours! My main problem is brain fog so I'd be very interested in hearing how you manage a 'sparkling clear brain'! How wonderful for you. I think you are absolutely right to invest in your health, if you can afford to do so - with good health everything is possible.

I don't know. The T3/T4 is made up for me by a compounding chemist, and isn't a commercial product. My brain fog went on for a year when I developed chronic fatigue syndrome and was due to newly developed food intolerances - eg not just wheat, but all cereals except rice.

The nutritional medicine doctors in Western Australia are a 'maverick' group not accepted by all other doctors but who are working wonders. Very radically, they try to treat the cause not the symptom, and they treat the individual not the average. They don't pretend to know it all as this is a new area - happening in other parts of the world too. And their methods work slowly.

It's been brilliant for me. I just had my annual checkup and the doctor said I'd been a 'model patient' because I'd done what she suggested and if it worked, I'd stuck to it. She told me my cholesterol was 'brilliant' which is nice at my age.

It isn't cheap to buy all the supplements but I consider it an investment in my health and I feel so good! And now I'm actually losing weight on the 5:2, albeit slowly, so that's even better.

Hope this helps.

Very interesting, Saj - how marvellous to be in tip top condition; you've obviously worked hard for it and are reaping the benefits.

Having your thyroid meds made up by a compounding chemist to the exact specifications to suit your metabolic profile is definitely the gold standard - virtually impossible to have this done in the UK and although the service is available in other parts of Europe, you have to have it prescribed by your GP. Dream on!!

The alternative is to become your own 'thyroid expert', learn as much as you can from the internet and books, and start the long and difficult journey of discovering which thyroid replacement therapy suits you best, and in what ratio. The role of thyroid hormones in the body is incredibly complex and wide-ranging so that if you are even minutely out in your requirements the knock-on effects are profound. But, in my opinion, it's worth doing if you are convinced you are either under-medicated or you simply feel below par most of the time.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[carorees]

That's interesting...I an fairly sure that some people with weight problems have thyroid dysfunction but the hormone levels appear to be within normal limits. I also think that fasting can affect thyroid function in different ways so it is worth playing around with different ways of fasting to see what works best. For some people too long fasting I think may reduce metabolism via the thyroid and result in feeling washed out the next day. I suspect that keeping feed day cals low can affect the thyroid too. I never get the energised feeling people talk of and wonder whether my thyroid is not quite up to scratch!

That's interesting...I an fairly sure that some people with weight problems have thyroid dysfunction but the hormone levels appear to be within normal limits. I also think that fasting can affect thyroid function in different ways so it is worth playing around with different ways of fasting to see what works best. For some people too long fasting I think may reduce metabolism via the thyroid and result in feeling washed out the next day. I suspect that keeping feed day cals low can affect the thyroid too. I never get the energised feeling people talk of and wonder whether my thyroid is not quite up to scratch!

Caroline, these so-called 'normal' limits are meaningless when applied on an individual basis (this is not just my opinion - far more knowledgeable people than me speak eloquently and convincingly on the topic of measuring thyroid hormone levels - see the links I posted above). This means that thousands of people who suspect they may have thyroid dysfunction are sent away without treatment because the level of thyroid hormone in the blood is 'normal'. It's a contentious and hot topic!

I think you're right that fasting does affect thyroid hormone output and that's borne out by other people on this thread saying blood tests have confirmed this. I have no thyroid gland so am dependant totally on thyroid hormone replacement.

I was advised by a respected thyroid specialist here in the UK (Dr Sarah Myhill - she has a website with a wealth of information if you're interested) that in her opinion a paleo diet is the only way people with thyroid related obesity can lose weight successfully and permanently. I wonder if a combination of 5:2/paleo is the way forward for me - to achieve weight loss and also reap the health benefits of fasting? Does anyone else do this, do you know?

[carorees]

Yes, I'm sure I've seen posts from people who do...try putting paleo in the search box!

Have posted on another thyroid thread, but have just found this one and been amazed by the wealth of information on here.
I have been on thyroxine since I was 21 ( I'm now59!) my thyroid swelled up and was called a goitre, I was on 100mcg until 6 months ago when they upped the dose to 150 mcg as all the symptoms came back as when it first started.
I've been doing IF for 2 weeks now, the first week I lost 4lbs the second none, I hope I lose a bit more by the end of the third week.
Since my dose was upped I have felt a lot better-energy wise- but I have a terrible foggy brain, it went briefly to start with but I seem to have slipped back again, I'm due to have my bloods done in a couple of weeks.
I have noticed though that on fast days my brain is a lot sharper.
I do hope this regime will work for us too.

You might experiment a bit with food on non-fast days. I find my brain markedly less sharp if I eat a lot of carbohydrates. I can't eat cereals anyway, except for rice, as I'm very intolerant of them (not just wheat, all of them) but even too many potatoes and root flours take the edge off my brain, and as a novelist, I need my brain clear. We have to make our own bread because you can't buy bread without nmaize/cornflour in it, even if it has not wheat.

I don't have carbohydrates at lunchtime even on non-fast days, but eat lots of salads or veggies, with variations on olives, avocadoes, cheese or artichokes, to make them more satisfying and substantial.

On 5:2 my body seems to have settled into a half to one kilo loss per month and if you look at it by the year, that's 6-10 kilos lost per year, which seems to accord with the research posted here about slower weight loss and underactive thyroids. And losing that many kilos is enough to keep me happy.

You could also try asking for a T3/T4 mix specially made up to your doctor's or specialist's prescription instead of thyroxine, which I've been told gradually loses its effectiveness over the decades. That's what I have, T2/T4. It costs about $80 for three months' supply. I come from the goitre belt of Lancashire originally and was developing a goitre so had a sub-total thyroidectomy.

That's interesting...I an fairly sure that some people with weight problems have thyroid dysfunction but the hormone levels appear to be within normal limits. I also think that fasting can affect thyroid function in different ways so it is worth playing around with different ways of fasting to see what works best. For some people too long fasting I think may reduce metabolism via the thyroid and result in feeling washed out the next day. I suspect that keeping feed day cals low can affect the thyroid too. I never get the energised feeling people talk of and wonder whether my thyroid is not quite up to scratch!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/115194 (from the 70s !!) found that

"Results before fasting: T4, T3, TBG, cortisol, CBG, alpha 2-haptoglobin and complement C'3 of the obese patients were elevated when compared with healthy normal weight controls"

"Significant decreases were observed during fasting for the following parameters -- T3, TBG, T3/TBG ratio, transferrin, alpha 2-haptoglobin complement C'3. rT3, T4/TBG ratio, RT3U, fT4 index and FFA increased"

" Results during re-alimentation: T3, TBG, T3/TBG ratio, TSH response to TRH, transferrin, alpha 2-haptoglobin and complement C'3 increased. Conversely, fT3, RT3U, FFA, cortisol and cortisol/cbg ratio decreased whereas the other parameters did not change. Conclusions: 1) There is no evidence for primary hypothyroidism in obese patients during prolonged fasting and re-alimentation... 6) Re-alimentation reverses rapidly all observed changes. "

The protocol was " total fasting for 31 +/- 10 days followed by re-alimentation with an 800 calorie diet " so the 800 calories were enough to restore things to normal.

[carorees]

The trouble with taking mean values from a group of obese people is that they are likely to be a heterogenous group in which some may have thyroid function that is at the low end of normal whereas others will be just those who eat a lot! I think we need to look more at the range and confidence intervals when analysing these studies.

Nonetheless, it is reassuring to know that for most people anyway, 800 cals is enough to restore thyroid function. What we don't know is what range of fasting durations would be enough to trigger the changes in T3/T4 etc.

I asked my GP about this (as i have underactive thyroid) and he said there was no relationship between IF and thyroid or weight and thyroid function.

[carorees]

This what the NHS says:

See your GP and ask to be tested for an underactive thyroid if you have symptoms including:
tiredness
weight gain
depression
being sensitive to the cold
dry skin and hair
muscle aches

The studies Phil has identified, together with the experiences of our members here reinforces the link between thyroid function and weight. Of course, there is not enough research into IF to know how it affects thyroid function.

I asked my GP about this (as i have underactive thyroid) and he said there was no relationship between IF and thyroid or weight and thyroid function.

Sadly, Chris, I think you're asking the wrong person if your GP doesn't understand the role of the thyroid gland in regulating metabolism. Does that mean that if you were losing weight rapidly it wouldn't cross his mind that you might have an over active thyroid as a result of excess thyroid medication? Bit of a worry, really, but not unusual.

Hi there, well I haven't got a lot of faith in medical practitioners since various misdiagnoses, but after reading the stuff on IF and thyroid on this forum, I wanted him to give me a blood test. Although he thought there was no relationship, he did agree to a blood test, which I am having next Wednesday. Will be interesting to see results.

I'm currently on 200mcg Synthroid for cancer suppression. I will have a check up with my endocrinologist on May 1st. By then I'll have been doing 5:2 for 2 months and lost a few pounds. I'll report what I find out, how it's affected my levels (if at all).