The FastDay Forum

simcoeluv - that was a very interesting post. What puzzles me is that you said that Atkins was a very low calorie diet.

I eat a lot of dairy foods, on non-fast days of course, and the calories from those sorts of foods alone total over 1500 calories a day.

That's not including all the other things that I eat. I have never added them all up, but I think I will, just out of interest.

Hi simcoeluv, <waves across the ocean>I found the same with Atkins, re missing carbs, and I more than made up for it when I stopped doing it. I eat everything now, like you, but I have virtually eliminated sugar, the type found in cakes and sweets and processed foods, but I still eat grains, but in small amounts and this way of eating suits me down to the ground. Actually think that if you do Atkins the way he recommended, and get most of your carbs from veggies it is pretty healthy. I was afraid to embrace it wholeheartedly, the cream, butter and animal fat and still am. I do eat more fats now, mostly from cheese, avocado oil, coconut oil and olive oil. I do eat butter, never spreads, but less so than the other fats. I tend not to eat a lot of meat, but I love oily fish, herring is my number one fave, sardines and mackerel a close second, salmon bringing up the rear! I do think our eat well plate, promoted by the nhs here, is very badly informed and encourages far too much of the diet to be based on sugar laden starches and grains. If I were to follow the nhs guideline on healthy eating I would be struggling not to gain weight! I find this forum a mine of information, especially when I read up on the many interesting and informative links, but I also find that a very convincing argument for following a particular eating plan is usually counter argued by another convincing argument for a completely different eating plan! So, as I am most convinced by the low carb argument and find it the easiest, that is the one I stick to, but with my own spin on it - sort of medium carb Tomtank, I would be really interested to hear your findings on how many cals you're consuming. I will try to keep a record of my average weekly food intake to work out how many cals and carbs I am taking in. Will post them next week!

simcoeluv - that was a very interesting post. What puzzles me is that you said that Atkins was a very low calorie diet.

That tends to be the case in that while full and satisfied the calorie intake on an ad-lib low carb diet people voluntarily eat less.

In some clinical trials trying to compare the same calorie intake with different macro compositions the volunteers mess it up by failing to eat enough on low carb.

Most recently in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23414424 the food intake fell by 25% and carbs dropped by 50% leading to a 4.5kg weight loss.

Like dhana, I will add up my daily calorie intake on non-fast days. I suppose that, for those following Atkins who don't like dairy or fatty foods, their intake would be much lower.

It's hard to believe that on Atkins it is thought that people don't eat as much. I never stop, all day long!

Fresh fruit, meat, fish, veg, cheese, cream, butter - you name it! Just no cakes, chocolate etc!!

Fresh fruit, meat, fish, veg, cheese, cream, butter - you name it!

Fresh fruit ? how much of that fits into Atkins induction 20g of carbohydrates of which 12-15g are from vegetables.

https://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/met ... a-calorie/ also points to Judkin's work in the early 70s where subjects ate 1560 cals/day on an ad lib low carb regime, contrasted with the finger gnawing pain of the Minnesota experiment "victims" on a high carb diet.

PhilT - the induction part of Atkins only lasts for two weeks! Obviously, I'm way past that stage.

The biggest misconception is that carbs are severely restricted for ever. That's just not the case.

I believe that people would still lose large amounts of weight, without having to do the induction phase.

I think that a lot are put off by this part of the diet. It leads them to think that things are never going to get better, as far as eating more interesting food is concerned.

Also, I think that the Atkins book is far too technical, and results in people putting it down, unable to grasp the concept of what it's all about.

I don't mean that in a disrespectful way to those who have bought it, but it could easily have been presented in an easier-to-understand format.

PhilT - the induction part of Atkins only lasts for two weeks!

It is suggested you stay on it as long as you like until close to your weight loss goal. I did it for 6 months.

So what's your daily carb intake ?

I agree that the book is quite technical, it also has a load of recipes and food list crap in that I would happily throw out. But that's the nature of diet books - if you can't explain a diet on a single sheet of A4 then it's a poor lookout, so they pack out books with fluff. Some people like slavishly following rules and lists, so maybe it works for them.

PhilT - I'll have to sit down and work it out! I haven't a clue. I just roughly know what I can eat on any given day.

I weigh myself every day, just to keep tabs on things.

Boring, I know!

Simcoeluv, I agree with you regarding the low calories. I did the Dukan attack twice for two days in the last couple of weeks and the most I ate was 1150 and I was eating as much as I wanted. But I can't possibly eat more than that if it's protein only!
I am thinking that perhaps Atkins is a way to make people to eat low cal without them knowing.

Hi TML13 - if you choose to eat dairy and fatty foods on Atkins, which are allowed, you could end up ingesting large amounts of calories.

Having read all the arguments I checked back on the two periods when I was doing low carb and losing really well. I did a spell on Atkins when SW wasn't doing anything for my blood glucose and then started to fall off the wagon after a Christmas of eating like a loon! After that I got my head in gear and went onto the Pig2Twig which is also low carb and very similar to Atkins but without the need for counting carbs. For interest I did log my intake on MFS so I have the details. On both diets I was eating around 20g carb and 1400/1500 cals a day and losing well.

Once again I got sick of saying no to bread and desserts and so 5:2 beckoned. I lost an initial 5 or 6lbs but then stalled for 2mths. During that time my BG has also started to creep up and some of you already know about my shock BP reading last week! On 5:2 my calories average out at around 1000/day but my carbs are anything up to 100g/day. This week I have gone back to low carb and have already seen a drop in weight. I'm aware that some of it will be due to my glycogen store leaving home so I shall watch and wait. Once I get back on low carb I intend to do a low carb 16/8 in the hope of reaping some fasting benefits.

I was interested to see that my weight had stalled on the 5:2 despite the fact that my calories had actually dropped. I can also add that going back to low carb has easily doubled my energy levels.

Before anyone tries to shoot my head off, I have posted these figures for the interest of those who wanted to know how the figures compare. I'm not a low carb evangelist. We all have to eat what suits us personally so I'm not trying to say that its how we should all eat. I do know that a lot of my friends with FMS do very well on low carb and I have wondered if maybe we just don't digest carbs properly as part of the FMS. Many of us have sicca syndrome and struggle with lack of saliva. The initial digestion of carbs does begin in the mouth with enzymes in the saliva and there is a theory that we are intolerant to carbs because digestion is incomplete. I would be interested to see how anyone elses records compare.

dhana - I am going to work out how many carbs and calories I eat tomorrow and let you know.

miffy49 - your post was very interesting and informative. Really pleased you're doing so well.

Thanks tomtank. I have a docs appt on Friday and will be interested to get a check BP reading and also the results of the bloods I had taken last week.

Tomtank, thanks for that. Btw , the guy who is eating 5000cals a day is still going strong, gaining but very little considering. is it a trick PhilT? Miffy, I have high bp too, take meds and am hoping 5.2 will help with that. Also have a genetic heart condition, hocm and take beta-blockers. Disappointed with your bp results, hope it was a fluke.