The FastDay Forum

@Firehorse, your post makes me think you believe you aren't allowed "regular" (caffeinated) coffee? That's not true...what's funny is, the first thing I checked before deciding to do 5:2 was "Can I have my black (very strong, 3 Aeropress scoops) coffee on fast days?" The answer was yes, so here I am, down 25 lbs!

I don't really do regular caffeinated coffee much having come down with sleep-deprivation related insulin resistance last year... the breakdown products of caffeine cause the production of insulin in the body so decaff it is (most of the time)....

[carorees]

I don't really do regular caffeinated coffee much having come down with sleep-deprivation related insulin resistance last year... the breakdown products of caffeine cause the production of insulin in the body so decaff it is (most of the time)....

Hi @Firehorse (great user name by the way), I've never heard this about caffeine...can you point me to the scientific studies showing this? I drink rather a lot of coffee so would be very interested to know more. Thanks very much.

Hi @Firehorse (great user name by the way), I've never heard this about caffeine...can you point me to the scientific studies showing this? I drink rather a lot of coffee so would be very interested to know more. Thanks very much.

There are several on here...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?site=&s ... R6Omse46b4
It wasn't the caffeine that caused the IR (not this time anyway.... the first time it was a red bull habit that got out of hand so that WAS caffeine) but caffeine / carb avoidance has now got me out of IR. I just don't want to go back there!

What's a white decaf? I've never heard that term before.

While experimenting with fasting, you might want to consider trying what many of us do - not eat until dinner. This is about a 20 hour fast. I find, as do many others, that fasting isn't too difficult *until* I eat. Once I start eating on a fast day, I find it very, very hard to stop. Plus, if I save all of my calories until dinner at 6pm, I have plenty to eat in the evening and I don't go to bed hungry.

Hope this helps!

Hi Tracieknits. Just decaffeinated coffee with milk.....
I have considered the skipping breakfast idea but I have meds I need to take first thing and I hate taking tablets on an empty stomach....

@carorees, as one of our resident science geeks, could you parse these studies and report back? I did look at one, and it appeared that they used a dose of 870mg of caffeine for the study, which is MUCH more than I ever take in. I had done some research on this, as I was hoping that my black coffee on an empty stomach was not causing an insulin response. However, having done this for some months now, I think it's pretty clear that at least for me, black coffee does NOT lead to insulin response or otherwise mess with my blood sugar (doesn't make me hungry or shaky, just awake). I did not see that the study controlled for the addition (or not) of whiteners or sweeteners; seems that (especially the latter) would be significant. Some of my earlier research also indicated that having coffee by itself or with food made a difference in its effects.

There have been a number of observational studies that show coffee intake as related to a lower risk of diabetes and dementia. Of course, nothing in nutrition is that simple; you might have one good result and two bad, or vice versa. Plus, genetics is in its infancy; perhaps one day we'll be able to get a blueprint telling us our ideal diet, but until that day, we all have to make decisions about what works for us. My friend, who used to down 5-shot mochas, now drinks only tea; he finds that coffee makes him "edgy" (translate: ripping heads off). I believe it's because he needs a little theanine (a calming amino acid found in tea) with his caffeine. I have one cup of coffee per day, sometimes two, then switch to tea (all colors, including herbal). Although I appreciate the wake-up power of coffee, I drink it because I love it; I make my own using an Aeropress (look it up, it's great!). Living in the land of Starbucks, I seldom buy a premade coffee; don't like Starbucks drip, so have an Americano the once in a great while I do have coffee there. I have no use for energy drinks, and in any case, don't do high fructose corn syrup (another one of those personal health decisions). I bet most people here are familiar with that horrible shaky feeling you get when you try to compensate for sleep deprivation by overindulging in stimulants.

[carorees]

@ferretgal@Firehorse, I've split the posts on caffeine away from the Fasting today thread into a new thread for us.

Interesting thread indeed. I'm currently drinking 2 mugs of fresh caffeine coffee with double cream with my break fast/brunch prior to noon to get me going, then switch to decaff and tisanes so it doesn't interfere with sleep. I've read many varied pieces about how good or bad it is but sometimes I just need that boost to wake up a sluggish metabolism.
P.s. No cream on fast days obvs!

[carorees]

As you might expect, the situation is complicated! Coffee is a complex substance containing not just caffeine but also several other chemicals. This complexity means that some of the chemicals and their breakdown products may be beneficial and others may be harmful and the balance of harm vs benefit is likely to be different from person to person. The benefits of coffee are shown in association studies to occur with both caffeinated and decaffeinated coffee so one may guess that the benefits are not coming from the caffeine. The benefits seem to be a reduced risk of many of the obesity-related diseases including diabetes and heart disease.

Caffeine appears to promote fat burning to a small extent and is a major component of several supposed weight loss miracles such as green tea. This effect might be due to stimulation of adrenaline (epinephrine) release which raises blood sugar through converting fats to glucose in liver and lowers insulin sensitivity (increases insulin resistance). Thus, when caffeine is eaten with or followed by foods/drinks containing sugar/glucose/refined carbs it reduces insulin sensitivity (worsens insulin resistance) and causes blood glucose to rise higher.

Thus, while coffee consumption can increase insulin sensitivity and decrease diabetes risk in those without insulin resistance or diabetes, the consumption of caffeine in people with diabetes could increase the risk of diabetes complications. However, several studies found that coffee or caffeine without also having carbohydrate/sugar does not lead to significant changes in blood glucose or insulin.

So coffee and cake looks like not such a good idea but coffee instead of cake (or other carb laden food) is good but don't add sugar to your coffee! Or...stick to having decaf with your cakes

I probably don't have the full story yet, but that is what I was able to find out so far...

I'm a coffee fan, but I restrict myself to weekends now as caffeine does give me the jitters. I drink it because of the antioxidant content (although that is not apparently as good as we all once thought), and because I read somewhere it is good if you drink alcohol because of the effect on the liver. Sorry I can't find that research right now. However I only drink it black or bulletproof to keep it sugar free.
It seems cultural here in the US to see people wandering around with a big Starbucks cup permawelded to their hand wherever they are. Still can't get used to that.

That's such a thing, @rawkaren, that it's in all the TV shows now. From an environmental point of view, it drives me crazy. But also… do we really need such large servings of coffee, usually milky and/or sugary coffee? In Japan, Starbucks dropped a size off the top end and added one at the lower end because people here just don't do such large servings. They also don't do decaf anywhere in Japan as far as I can tell, which is a shame. I get jittery and sometimes have stomach problems if I drink too much coffee. I've dropped back to 3 a day (usually less on weekends) and that seems to be ok.

[carorees]

It was interesting trying to find out about this. I'm going to continue with my black caffeinated coffee instead of breakfast but change to decaf after lunch. It would be interesting to know if anyone has noticed benefits to blood sugar etc from switching to decaf. Also if caffeine and sugar is a bad combination, that makes non diet cola a particularly bad drink doesn't it?

It was interesting trying to find out about this. I'm going to continue with my black caffeinated coffee instead of breakfast but change to decaf after lunch. It would be interesting to know if anyone has noticed benefits to blood sugar etc from switching to decaf. Also if caffeine and sugar is a bad combination, that makes non diet cola a particularly bad drink doesn't it?

Hi @carorees. I read recently that decaf may not be as bad for us as originally thought but like normal coffee, opinion differs. I know it is more acid and of course there are the chemicals used to take the caffeine away but I can't remember where I read the counter view. This is the one that put me off decaf for a while, but I do drink about four cups of decaf a day (black of course or sometimes with a spoon of collagen powder) http://www.livestrong.com/article/36427 ... ur-health/

I spotted this which refers to an article in Science Daily which I can't find about memory improvement and reducing risk of diabetes, but sadly this feature is designed to push product so I don't see it as credible https://www.bulletproofexec.com/why-dec ... lletproof/

Coincidentally Just heard an interview with a research Doc this morning on local radio. The bottom line of his following of the research is that Coffee in and of itself continues to show positive features with regard to cardiovascular health and anti-inflamatory aspects. The assertion is predicated on ones tolerance and assumes 2-3 cups per day. Any less will have less benefit and more than 2-3 cups does not seem increase the benefit. PODcast are delayed and may be available tomorrow.

More possible good news on coffee. Could not decide whether to post this in the soberista's tent or not, but probably better here.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/th ... ts-n330131