The FastDay Forum

I will read the whole thing when I get the chance, but this is pretty depressing!

"Prescribed weight loss as a target for all-cause mortality reduction among the overweight and healthy obese is a failed concept both in terms of evidence for benefit and in terms of implementation.......
In all cases, the aim should be to avoid initial weight gain, prevent ongoing weight gain, and realize physical and metabolic fitness at any size...."

Could it be that because of massive obesity epidemic in US and Canada and the lack of effective means of sustainable weight loss for millions of people, they need somehow comfort people and themselves by saying - stay as you are, it is OK to be overweight or obese?

I am on maintenance at the moment. I set my goal for 9st 5lb which was just plucked out of the air. My body seems to want to be 9st 8lb as it keeps returning to that. I weighed 9st 8lb when I was a teenager. I am now 67 and am beginning to feel I should maybe be happy where I am. At one time I thought once I had steadied at 9.5 I would carry on to get down to 9st. I think after reading the above I will chill out and be happy with what I have achieved. I continue to do 5/2 for health and because I feel better for it. It also allows me to enjoy food without feeling guilty the other 5days. Thank you for all your very informative help over the past 6 months and I've no doubt into the future.

Am -I just cynical or would there be another paper/study out there that contradicts this one? Personally I want to be slim for many reasons and living an extra 10 years isn't one of them. It's nice to read some of this stuff (I didn't because I don't think it will help me) but at the end of the day it's your personal situation that matters.i.e get your own tests done, see how you feel and remember to try to keep the weight off.

[carorees]

I think it unlikely that there is contradictory paper as this one is a review and synthesis of current literature not an isolated study. However, there may be contradictory studies...I'd have to do a literature search to see. Mind you, from what I've seen, most papers seem to support the notion that a stable weight if otherwise healthy is safest.

It makes sense that losing weight is associated with increased mortality because 80% of people put the weight back on and more. The paper shows that it is better to maintain a stable weight than to lose and then regain. I don't think there is much data about the longterm health outcomes for people who lose weight and keep it off for good because so few people manage it. Therefore we must try our utmost to keep our weight stable once we reach target.

Ah, there's the rub. Phew. Losing isn't necessarily bad, losing and regaining is. I'm a scientist, yet I still find these sorts of studies difficult to understand.

I've always viewed 'healthy at any size' skeptically. It's fantastic if it's true (and I'm sure it is in many cases) and not a cop out. But it's hard to change how the world views fat people. I didn't want to live with that anymore. Look at the outcry every time there's a study showing overweight people live longer than normal weight people. The experts twist themselves in knots in protest--they just cannot accept that it is true. 'Fat is bad' is so engrained they forget how to be scientists.

Well, and here I am doing it. I had no indicators of poor health, but I refuse to believe I've reduced my life span by losing weight.

Just out of interest how is yo yo dieting defined? Is there an amount lost and then gained that would be considered 'yo yoing' e.g. 7lbs or more, or is it any amount of weight ?

[Tracieknits]

"Prescribed weight loss as a target for all-cause mortality reduction among the overweight and healthy obese is a failed concept both in terms of evidence for benefit and in terms of implementation.......
In all cases, the aim should be to avoid initial weight gain, prevent ongoing weight gain, and realize physical and metabolic fitness at any size...."

Could it be that because of massive obesity epidemic in US and Canada and the lack of effective means of sustainable weight loss for millions of people, they need somehow comfort people and themselves by saying - stay as you are, it is OK to be overweight or obese?

That's not actually how science works.

The cynical can point to studies that are guided to a result by their funding dollars, but in this case you'd have to ask where the profit lies? There is a great deal of money to be made off of coaxing people to lose weight, but no real profit margins in telling people it's okay to stay fat. So a "study" showing people lost weight using drug x can be viewed a bit skeptically, especially if the study is funded by the company that sells drug x. But in this case, where's the motivation to lie? Scientists don't just make things up to comfort people.

That being said, I'm wondering what the actual rate of increased mortality is. I'm one of the "healthy obese" in that all of my indicators such as blood sugar, blood pressure, etc etc are healthy. The only problems are my weight, and my thyroid disease, which is not caused by obesity.

If I have to gamble on increased risk of mortality by losing weight, versus increased mortality by someday getting an obesity related illness (which would entail a substantially higher risk of mortality, it can be assumed), then I should still choose the weight loss risk, no?

when i was a kid,everyone's nans,aunts and even an elderly uncle or two were usually fat but no one seemed to give it a second thought..
I never heard of anyone dieting ( except ,strangely my tubby little best friend when i was about eight and dead skinny..i was mystified by her eating ryvitas,didnt have a clue why she ate them or what they were)
Fashion didnt matter to those northern nans i remember..they all just wore identical big crossover pinnies with a pocket in the front where they kept a big purse,hair in a hairnet.
Didnt give a hoot,ate what they liked..what a simple life!
These days,i never ever see a fat person in their 70s or older..i think they must die younger..
Just see spry skinny old girls when i am out and about..
So, surely it must be healthier to be a reasonable weight for height..
tho of course the losing / regaining weight thing must massively mess up your body..as a yoyo dieter i know that only too well and can only hope and pray i havent left it too late at 63 to remedy the situation once and for all!

Just spotted this in the NY Times: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/0 ... ealth&_r=0

maybe it deserves its own thread, but I think it's relevant to this discussion

CandiceMarie every fat woman in my family was trying to lose weight, they were all plump and dieting, when I was a child. That's where I got my dieting obsession! I also must be extremely unhealthy as i have yo-yo'd for 40 years LOL.

There are an uncountable number of reasons to lose weight.

If you want better health, exercise.

[carorees]

Just spotted this in the NY Times: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/0 ... ealth&_r=0

maybe it deserves its own thread, but I think it's relevant to this discussion

Fascinating...thanks!

Mum is an overweight yoyo dieter, and at 84 still guilty about 'naughty' food & unhappy about her size.
Both my parents (in their eighties) have had a knee replacement. Maybe being lighter would lessen the load on painful joints, even if that would not show up as as one of the health markers.

I have been a yo yo dieter for decades. I have gained and lost the same stone and a half since my original loss more times than I can remember. At the age of 57 I have cleaned up my food and now make as much as I can myself. I am currently a good stone over what I was at my lowest. More and more I feel it is about health and weight loss is a by product of 5:2. All that I have read about fasting makes sense but I agree it is better not to diet alongside it. I will get myself back to weighing on the first of the month and stop worrying about what the scales say.
With regard to exercise, I do not belong to a gym or do any WiFit or DVD workouts. I walk my dogs daily and am active looking after chickens, dogs, cats and garden. Also renovating. I am busy bottling fruit at the moment for the winter and spend hours on my feet. I am comfortable this is enough exercise for me.
We all have to find what works for us and although I read the articles I know this is right for me.