The FastDay Forum

Hi folks

I know this is a bit late, but I've been asked to do 20 minutes on IF with my local Humanist group here in Taunton - tomorrow at 12 noon.

I'm fairly clued up on the subject, but I wondered just what you would want to see included in such a talk - I don't want to miss out anything significant.

I'm starting with the 1937 study on rats which was picked up in the 2000s and led to all the studies that Mike Mosley investigated in his Horizon programme - then through all the health-giving advantages of IF.

Along the way I'll include the story of how I started - and where I am now. And I'll include all the variations - 3-4 day fasts, ADF, 4:3, 6:1; Fast-5; The Johnson UDDDD diet, etc.

I shall be emphasising that this is decidedly not a diet, but a way of life that has the fortunate side effect of managing our weight.

There are loads of other side effects I could mention - the fact that we are now in control of our lives, etc.

But anything else you can think of - I'd be very grateful!

When I've put it all together, I'll happily PM or email it to anyone who's interested. I'll also stick it on my blog.

Cheers, B&W

Edited to bring the heading up to date!

[carorees]

20 minutes?! Not nearly long enough

I think you've covered the main points.

A few things off the top of my head:
Evolutionary rationale for feasting/fasting.
Rat studies don't necessarily transfer to man. A day without food to a rat is much longer relative to their lifespan than a day without food for a human!
Most studies in humans have used very different protocols so it is very hard to compare the studies.
Differences between simple calorie restriction and calorie restriction via fasting (eg preferential loss of fat).
Religious fasting very well established
Are you using slides? You could include some nice graphs from the progress tracker maybe?

[Moogie]

Sounds like you've got it all covered well, though Caro's suggestions are all great (well, what else would we expect from her? ).

Perhaps to tie in with the part about it not being a 'diet' you could compare it with the way naturually thin people eat - feasting at times and other days not eating much at all? It does seem to sound less extreme that way!

I'd suggest discussing the evolutionary point that we are adapted to alternating periods of fasting by our likely evolutionary history. When people are quick to dismiss the diet as a fad, it's good to remind them that a way of eating that mimics patterns that existed for hundreds of thousands of years isn't really faddish.

Our species had to survive through periods of global cooling, in temperate areas where food is scarce for long periods. On many days, the only available food might well have been a few scraps from the previous day. The real dietary "fad" is unlimited access to food, 24/7, with zero effort involved to get it.

[wildmissus]

Just a suggestion - try not use the word 'fast' all the time instead I prefer to think of giving my body/digestive system a 'rest', others use the word 'repair'. Don't get me wrong I am more than happy to fast but other non IF'ers can find that word scarey.

What about mentioning the forum as it has for me been a fantastic means of support and as important as 5:2ing itself.

On a lighter note I'd also throw in ubizmo's reference from yesterday on ketones and spontaneous human combustion.

Thanks, folks - meant to say I'll be giving as many references as I can - including this forum, and Mumsnet, of course.

Several good points made so far - like the 'resting/repair' theme, and I'll certainly go down the evolutionary history path. Like the 'latest fad' idea. I've been telling people for a long time that in all our history we've never had cupboards and fridges full of food.

No slides, unfortunately - I'm not geared up for that, I'm afraid.

Must look up ubizmo and SHC! Sounds fascinating!

I'll have two sorts of handouts - one for those with internet access and a larger one for those without.

I'm enjoying getting my head around all this - collecting all this info just reminds me how far we've come in the last 12 months or so!

Hi Breadandwine. Please PM me when you have done it. Would you mind if I gave it to our local WI?

Not at all, Monty - the more this info is disseminated the more I like it!

As soon as I've finished it, I'll happily PM you.

Cheers, B&W

Hi Breadandwine - I am brand new to the forum today, but have been 'fasting' for 6 months. Just wanted to mention my husbands improving kidney results since fasting. He has IgA nephropathy (chronic renal failure) brought about my a streptococcal throat infection which went untreated due to inability to get a doctors appointment 13 years ago. Basically, holes are being blown through his kidneys allowing large proteins (inc blood) out of the holes, therefore his BP goes up to keep the pressure up, causing more damage. He is on a lot of meds to keep his BP down. Before the 5:2 fasting his eGFR(estimated glomerular filtration rate was 17.9% getting close to needing dialysis at 15%), but in February it had risen to 21.4% - which can only be attributed to the fasting (and repair and regeneration which we had hoped for) - it was too big a rise to be a 'blip' or measurement variation.

sand33, that's wonderful! Very encouraging, indeed.

I shall mention this in my talk - along with a couple of cases I've read on the forums about improvements in cases of diabetes type 2, with people reporting being able to reduce their medication.

You've reminded me of a post on another forum with some very positive before and after figures:

"[Here are] my blood test results 4 months after starting ADF with a short background paragraph about my past health..A bit of background first. Up till two years ago I basically had a quite an issue with alcohol, namely a bottle and a half of Merlot in front of the Telly after work every day of the week. This had no real effect on my health until about 3 or 4 years ago when basically that and my increasing weight led to me starting to fall apart physically (no need to go into too many details). Anyway the docs start sending me for blood tests every 6 months or so to see how the 'markers' in my blood were doing.

Initially although my cholesterol was always fairly good, never really above 5.2 most of the other markers weren't great. My liver enzyme test coming out at about 130 when the upper limit should be 40.

I stopped drinking 2 years ago but put on a little more weight till a year ago I was 18 stone (but naturally big boned ). Although I hadn't drunk for a year the Liver enzyme test was still in the 60's this January. I lost a few stone between last November and early July when I had my last test and the Liver enyme test had dropped to 46, nearly the upper range of healthy.

So below are the results from July a couple of weeks before I started this WOE, initially 4:3 then more recently 5:2. As it said in the programme I have had 600 cals on Fasting days and eaten anything on none fasting days including chocolate, pizza, curry, crisps and anything up to 3,500 cals although my TDEE is around 3,300 because of my build,sex and activity levels. I keep my protein levels down, I'm not a great meat eater but do eat meat, I have no concerns at all whether something has carbohydrates in it but avoid most of the time very high GI foods but not all of the time. I eat a diet high in oats, fibre and veg as well as other 'less wholesome' foods and the only supplements I take are ALIMAX garlic tablets and Boots own label Omega 3 supplement.

The first column was the score in the July blood test the second the score now and the 3rd the recommended normal range. The results on the whole are pretty amazing.......

Cholesterol overall 4.1 / 3.4 / 3.0-5.0
HDL good Cholesterol 1.35 / 1.5 / 1.0-3.5
LDL bad cholesterol 2.3 / 1.6 / 1.0-3.00
A very good cholesterol reading and a huge improvement in the good to bad cholesterol ratio, especially considering my unrestricted diet on feed days

Trig levels .88 / .71 / 0.5-2.3
Although Triglyceride levels were good in July they were over 15% better a few months later, this is also a sign of a liver working healthily

Liver Function Tests
ALT/SGPT Serum 46 / 30 / 0.00-40.00
Serum Protein level 71 / 69 / 60-80
Serum albumin 44 / 45 / 35-50
Serum globulin 27 / 24 / 18-36
All markers basically going in the right direction with the main marker being within the healthy range for the first time in a decade

Kidney Function
Serum urea level 5.4 / 3.9 / 2.5-7.8
Serum creatine level 93 / 87 / 74-110
Serum Potasium 4.3 / 4.1 / 3.5-5.3
All fairly healthy with slight improvements. The drop in the urea marker probably down to my low protein diet showing up

Fasting Blood Glucose Level
4.5 / 4.7 / 3.5-6.0
Up slightly and I think it was in July from the previous one so will watch this.

Serum TSH Thyroid function / 1.67 / .35-5.5
This wasn't done last time

I post these results because people have asked to see whether this WOE has health benefits as well as weight loss benefits so I hope they don't look like I'm saying 'look at me aren't I great'. So overall in a matter of 4 months this WOE has has marked positive effects on some major body functions. Of course there may be other areas not tested that are going in the wrong direction only time and more evidnece from others will tell.
However all I can say is I feel better than I did 4 months ago, my Liver and Kidneys are working better and my cholesterol levels are markedly improved despite me eating basically anything I wanted...be it every other day."

Perhaps you might mention that, although many seem to find their first few 'fast days' quite challenging, for most people the fasts seem to get easier as the weeks pass? Some even report that they start to look forward to fast days!

Just a thought

How did it go Breadandwine?

Not exactly as I'd planned it, sand33, but it was well received, thanks.

I left it too late to start working on it - I've known I was going to do it for the past month! But I always leave things too late!

I had intended to have handouts, etc, but, in the event time just ran away with me.

I covered pretty much everything I wanted to from a Word document on my laptop - and I'm in email contact with the group, so I'll send them a copy of the talk that I shall PM to Monty later - with all the references, etc.

I have to say they were impressed by your stats, and those of your husband - thanks again for those.

Thanks also for your contribution, Phoenix - I didn't mention it in my talk, but I'll include it in my email to everyone.

I certainly look forward to my Monday fast, especially after an indulgent weekend!

Cheers, B&W

Hi Monty

I've PMed you the final draft of the talk I gave - I wasn't sure it would work since it's over three pages long, but it went through in a flash. I just wish Hotmail was as good!

I've tidied it up a bit from yesterday. No doubt you'll tweak it to suit yourself. If you do come up with anything new - or anything you think I'd left out, let me know and I'll add it to min copye. It's quite possible I could give the same talk to other groups I'm a member of, so any improvements will be welcome.

I'm also going to PM it to Carorees and Moogie to see what they think.

Cheers, Paul