The FastDay Forum

Female fibromyalgia patients: lower resting metabolic rates than matched healthy controls.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16810133

20% less measured metabolic rate than healthy equivalent and 28% below predicted rates. Measured mean was 1030 kcal/day resting metabolic rate.

In another study (yes Carorees it's ancient) hypothyroid patients had an average RMR of 1060 kcal/day http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 5-0018.pdf

[carorees]

Wow! That is worth knowing for hypothyroid sufferers.

I must be lucky that depite having FM, I don't appear to have a low RMR.

This doesn't surprise me at all. The thyroid specialist I went to see last year told me he would recommend a daily total 800 calories to enable me to lose weight, even when optimally medicated. This has been confirmed in my own IF journey in that on 5:2 with no calorie counting on 'feast days' the weight loss was virtually nil; on 4:3 with calorie counting of 1200 per 'feast'day the weight loss is sporadic and then stalls.

I suspect calorie counting and fasting is not the enough for those with thyroid problems - I think it matters a great deal what is consumed and in what ratio. Thyroiditis (Hashimotos) is an auto-immune disorder that has been linked to consumption of wheat specifically and grains in general so it makes sense that people with this disease which leads to hypothyroidism do well on a low-carb/paleo diet.

I'm going to combine 4:3 with paleo, forgetting calorie counting, for the next month and see how that goes.

This is depressing I have Fibro, Hypothyroidism and PCOS. Losing weight is a nightmare. I have allot to lose (at least 8 stone).

Sorry for my ignorance but what is paleo? Thank you

Paleo is a movement that advocates a return to what we used to eat in the stone age, or thereabouts. No refined sugars or cereals.

The Whole9 Nutrition Elevator Pitch :-

"I eat “real” food – fresh, natural food like meat, vegetables and fruit. I choose foods that are nutrient dense, with lots of naturally-occurring vitamins and minerals, over foods that have more calories but less nutrition. And food quality is important – I’m careful about where my meat comes from, and buy produce locally and organically as often as possible.

It’s not a low calorie “diet” – I eat as much as I need to maintain strength, energy and a healthy weight. In fact, my diet is probably much higher in fat than you’d imagine. Fat isn’t the enemy – it’s a great energy source when it comes from high quality foods like avocado, coconut and nuts. And I’m not trying to do a “low carb” thing, but since I’m eating vegetables and fruits instead of bread, cereal and pasta, it just happens to work out that way.

Eating like this is good for maintaining a healthy metabolism, and reducing inflammation within the body. It’s been doing great things for my energy levels, body composition and performance in the gym. It also helps to minimize my risk for a whole host of lifestyle diseases and conditions, like diabetes, heart attack and stroke."

Again, thank you for being so helpful Phil. I have not heard of this before and will look in to it further. Thank you ever so much

Marlathome, I have hypothyroidism and an autoimmune disease which means that my metabolism is slower than a snail.
BUT, eating very few calories hasn't helped me in losing weight because I simply made my body to turn on starving mode and lose nothing.
On the contrary, with finding my TDEE (the got I found online) and 5:2 I managed to lose some weight and I hope to lose some more.
That's just me, of course, and I'm not suggesting to not listen to your doctor...

One more thing: something very important if ones decide to follow the Paleio diet is to make sure they are eating what's in season.

OMG I had just posted in the hypothroid thread then saw the link to this article. I was diagnosed with FM a few years before hypothyroidism after treatment for cancer with a rather long and radical course of chemotherapy and radiation in my early '40s. One of the things I just realized is that since taking the armour thyroid I have had less pain, reduced FM symptoms (sleep, GI).

There HAS to be a correlation. I have always believed there is some unidentified neuro or endocrine hormone deficiency that causes FM. It would make sense that the lack of whatever it is interacts with thyroid function and impacts BMR.

I'm another with FM and hypothyroidism. Makes you wonder, doesn't it. But I feel good on 5:2 and I am losing half to a kilo a month, which is as much as I ever lose after the first 2 or 3 kilos. I've been fighting my body's desire to be fat for 50 years. If I hadn't fought, I reckon I'd be house sized.

What must it be like not to have to worry about weight and pain?

What must it be like not to have to worry about weight and pain?

I can remember what it was like, before Hashimoto's - could eat what I liked without thinking about weight, had loads of energy, enthusiasm for life, slept well, no depression, only pain I ever really felt was after a vigorous work out or game of squash (the odd headache, or cold probably). In the space of 6 months that changed forever. A doctor told me years ago that thyroid problems had far reaching effects manifesting in every organ of the body, including the brain. I thought he was alarmist and over-stating the case but now I know how true his words were. I sincerely wish there was more help and understanding for the thousands, if not millions, of people whose health is compromised by thyroid dysfunction.

The thyroid specialist I went to see last year told me he would recommend a daily total 800 calories to enable me to lose weight, even when optimally medicated. This has been confirmed in my own IF journey in that on 5:2 with no calorie counting on 'feast days' the weight loss was virtually nil; on 4:3 with calorie counting of 1200 per 'feast'day the weight loss is sporadic and then stalls.

I suspect calorie counting and fasting is not the enough for those with thyroid problems - I think it matters a great deal what is consumed and in what ratio. Thyroiditis (Hashimotos) is an auto-immune disorder that has been linked to consumption of wheat specifically and grains in general so it makes sense that people with this disease which leads to hypothyroidism do well on a low-carb/paleo diet.

Just my anekdata: I've had Hashimoto's for more than 25 years, with increasing doses of substitution. I've lost > 10% of my body weight 8 years ago on a 1300-1600 kcal diet (approx. 600 kcal/day deficit) and never entirely regained them. I lose 0.5 kg/week now on 5:2, amounting to almost 10% of start weight at this moment. Fast days 200-500 kcal. Non-fast days approximately TDEE (not counting, just estimated). I eat bread and cereal every day.

I'm not saying there couldn't be a point to your suggestion, but (as usual) it's probably more complicated.
Just out of interest since it affects me too - do you have a reference for the Hashimoto-wheat connection?

I'm better in many ways since I stopped taking Thyroxine (I was told it loses its effectiveness after 20 years or so) and went on to a custom made T3/T4 mixture (prescribed by doctor, made up by compounding chemist). This doctor specialises in nutritional medicine, and has turned my life around.

The T3/T4 costs me about $90 for three months supply, and the other supplements cost me $2-400 a month. And I'm a new woman mentally, full of my old brain sharpness. After a few years with an intermittent chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia foggy brain, that's wonderful.

I don't eat wheat or any cereal except rice because I'm intolerant of them, plus other foods upset me. And I don't cheat on my food intolerances because the 'brain fog' comes back with even a slight amount.

I was told by a nurse when I had chronic fatigue syndrome that the wheat intolerance also relates to Irish ancestry. Who knows? We are complex creatures.

Just my anekdata: I've had Hashimoto's for more than 25 years, with increasing doses of substitution. I've lost > 10% of my body weight 8 years ago on a 1300-1600 kcal diet (approx. 600 kcal/day deficit) and never entirely regained them. I lose 0.5 kg/week now on 5:2, amounting to almost 10% of start weight at this moment. Fast days 200-500 kcal. Non-fast days approximately TDEE (not counting, just estimated). I eat bread and cereal every day.

I'm not saying there couldn't be a point to your suggestion, but (as usual) it's probably more complicated.
Just out of interest since it affects me too - do you have a reference for the Hashimoto-wheat connection?

Below is a good, clear summary of the connection between thyroiditis and gluten which gives scientific research references. A Google search will provide a wealth of information if you're interested in learning more. The majority of people I speak to in the online thyroid support forum, of which I am a member, with Hashimoto's are also gluten intolerant and many have developed Celiac disease. That isn't to say, of course, that everyone with Hashimoto's is gluten intolerant but certainly it's something to consider if symptoms persist even when optimally medicated.

http://blog.gingernash.com/?p=58

That isn't to say, of course, that everyone with Hashimoto's is gluten intolerant but certainly it's something to consider if symptoms persist even when optimally medicated.

Thanks for the links, very interesting! I wasn't aware of that connection. Found a couple of studies and reviews on PubMed, mostly agreeing on a 2-5% prevalence of celiac disease (confirmed by biopsy) and somewhat higher percentage anti-gliadin antibodies in both auto-immune hypo- and hyperthyroidism. The suggestion in one of the most recent articles (abstract, couldn't access the article) was that the bowel disease affected absorption of the thyroid substitution.

Since there seems to be a genetic component to it, I guess I don't fall into that particular subgroup. No gluten intolerance, and T4 works fine for me even after more than 20 years. Who knows, even fibromyalgia might be part of that particular genetic preset.