The FastDay Forum

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/P ... -work.aspx

[carorees]

Astonishing that they did their "research" via Google scholar and not via PubMed which is where abstracts of virtually all research studies are posted and is the gold standard for doing a systematatic review!

This is not a very helpful document for GPs wanting to know whether to advise their patients to take up the diet.

[carorees]

Just seen that Dr M has tweeted in response to someone asking if he had seen the NHS statement:

@DrMichaelMosley have you seen the NHS appraisal of 5:2? http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/P ... -work.aspx … ”

Yes, shame didn't include up to date studies

[Moogie]

That looks like a really poor assessment and negative view of 5:2 to me. While the list of possible side effects may look bad initially, compared with the usual 'possible side effects' listed on most medications, it's not bad at all. I actually find the opposite is true of most of the for me, though I guess we're all different - and any major change in diet could cause most of those.

•difficulties sleeping
- not me, I sleep better than I have in years

•bad breath (a known problem with low carbohydrate diets)
- not that I know of, though I haven't changed my carb intake at all

•irritability
- Maybe a little shorter tempered when it comes towards dinnertime

•anxiety
- No more so than normal

•dehydration
- I now have a better fluid intake than ever

•daytime sleepiness
- More alert until about 4.30pm when I start to feel ready to eat, then I have a second wave until I actually eat about 2 hours later!

I think the NHS are right to point out that little is know about 5:2.

I am on the 5:2 diet however I feel from reading this forum and facebook that people are assuming too much. I think the NHS are right to point out that the 5:2 has just been made up because it has. Mosley, as he said in his documentary, deviced his own regime because he thought it was more manageble than alternate day fasting. So nobody know if this is an optimal regime and a sample size of 1 doesn't prove anything.

Most of the biochemical improvements seen in response to weight loss as a consequence of intermittend fasing will most likely been seen along with weight loss from feeding regime.

I do think there is something in fasting that improves metabolism which is why I am following it but I am doing so in the full knowledge that little of this is fact. I also have weight to lose! I have reservations about fitness fanatics embarking upon this "lifestyle". If this regime is aimed at shedding lbs then surely you need to stop it at some point, you can keep on losing weight for your whole life.

It just worries me that some people are taking things too literally. If people are doing this to be more healthy, then they should heed health warning. Mosley shouldn't be encouraging people to ignore NHS advice.

Also if she knows of up to date studies why doesn't he tell us about them! If there were any studies looking at the 5:2 diet in humans with a wide range of BMI then i'm sure he would be shouting it from the roof tops.

My initial views on reading it were that it was a bit of a hurried job but to be fair, as the article states, there really is very little human research in this area.

It won't change my views on IF. I was impressed with Dr MM's bloods and IGF-1 results on the Horizon prog. I was also happy with my own bloods (no IGF-1 test yet) after 3 mths IFing. Another male over on mumsnet also posted encouraging blood results. 3 sets of blood results don't exactly equate to a sound scientific study but I still think IF is a good thing and should be pursued with the standard caveats re type 1 diabetics and folks with eating disorders...

I am interested to find out more about the negative side effects of IF, something the article covered woefully. In particular is there a downside with having low IGF-1? I've also experienced dizziness several times when standing up too quickly, I guess linked to low blood pressure.

I am very interested in IF and don't disagree that there are lots of encouraging case studies. I just wanted to make the point that at the moment this is theory and not fact. It will be interesting to find out if IF controls body mass in the long run. Only time will tell.

I think that potentially it could be used as a strategy to control metabolic disease but currently there is no evidence to support this. Until there is evidence health professionals can hardly start advocating it's use.

[carorees]

I don't disagree that they are right to be cautious but I do think it is extremely poor that they did not bother to find out about the latest research. Using google scholar brings up ancient articles, using pubmed brings up the latest research...before the studies have even been published in print very often. There is an article by Krista Varady published in December that they don't mention for example.

Personally I'm doing the diet for weight loss (and plan to vary the number of fast days later for stabilisation.) The science on the rest is far too preliminary for my taste. It want to see a lot more replication before I take it very seriously.

As to the side effects, I've not noticed any of those. Quite the opposite in terms of daytime sleepiness, irritability and anxiety, in fact.

You have to remember that the NHS has to stick to government guidelines and this article does this. However; they should have researched this WOE differently to have any credibility.

There is nothing wrong with restricting calories for 2 days a week. I notice all my 'naturally' thin friends do this anyway. They all say, 'I eat all the time', yet what they fail to mention is the days they have where they don't eat much at all. This is a natural way to lose or maintain weight.

As to the supposed health benefits; I think the studies will be done and published, then we will see. However; nothing is set in stone, even medical advice.

Mx

shell

I think that is too true. I have 2 friends that are very slim and always have been. One of them is exactly the same weight every time she stands on the scales. I was thinking about this and they both eat very little until they are hungry then eat a big meal. I'm sure they only eat about 4 or 5 main meals a week. So they are effectively employing a feast and famine strategy without thinking about it.

They obviously have the ability to control their hunger and can tell when they have had enough.

The thing I like about the fasting is that I seem to be learning to eat when I am hungry. I don't stick to meal times anymore, if I’m not hungry at lunchtime, I don't eat. Also I'm more aware of when I am full. I've started leaving food on my plate, which is something I would never have done before.

It is a natural way to be. People like me, however, have lost this natural way of controlling their weight and health and I need to re-learn this. I know exactly when I lost this and it was due to a trauma in my life. Food filled a giant hole, it just never stayed full.

shell
Think i've lost it too. My main thing is I was always told to eat everything on my plate so I always have. So I never listened to signals of being full. I seem to be learning that now.

Yes, it is a disaster to lose this natural way of controlling our weight and health. We can do it and I think as I get older it gets easier. For me anyway. I'm 44.

The NHS are being too over cautious because someone hasn't spent 20 years researching IF!
I think if you read through this site there is already a fair amount of evidence to support the good findings, and I believe there is a report that is about ot be published that shows longer term results on human. Perhaps this will help settle things a little?