The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

They were also told to try to eat double their normal intake on the following day in order to try to avoid losing weight. It is a much more extreme intervention than 2 days a week.

they didn't manage to eat double on the feeding days though :-

[carorees]

Hardly surprising! What does surprise me is that the researchers thought that they would be able to eat enough to prevent weight loss. The fact that they lost weight means that, as with all the other studies, we can't tell what effect the fasting had, per se, as the weight loss will have contributed an unknown amount to the findings.

JamesM...you hit the nail on the head. This is a way of life that does'nt cost MONEY therefor the multi million pound diet industry are not going to proffit...I fully expect as time goes on that followers of 5:2 will get a pounding (pun intended)
However on the matter of glucose.
Now I don't have a scientific bone in my body so I'm not sure how relevant this info is.
Appx a year ago I had a fasting blood test with glucose levels coming out at 7. Now in my GP surgery over 7 means the patient is diabetic but some surgeries have that figure at 6.5
Anyway, I started 5:2 on the 31st of Jan and 2 fasts in had another fasting blood test.
Glucose is now 5.4.
I'm not claiming anything as I don't know enough about the subject but thought I would post it here perhaps someone with more knowledge could comment.

[carorees]

Fasting but especially weight loss improves glucose metabolism, so blood glucose levels are properly controlled by the body. Following your first meal immediately after the fast, blood glucose may be higher but this quickly corrects itself.

"Appx a year ago I had a fasting blood test with glucose levels coming out at 7" - The HbA1c test is definitive with a cutoff of ‡ 48 mmol ⁄ mol (‡ 6.5%) for diabetes diagnosis. A glucose test of 7.0 to 11.0 should result in a sample being sent to the lab for glucose and HbA1c analysis (NHS National guidance).

5.4 is good, 7 is bad so I would have at least one more test to confirm where you are.

Dr M's fasting glucose was 7.3 before he started on 5:2, after 3 months on 5:2 it fell to 5.0. He writes of the 7.3 reading that it 'was worryingly high. I was not yet a diabetic but I had signs of what is called impaired glucose tolerance, pre-diabetes.'

I worry that fasting is only beneficial to overweight people and either of no benefit, or worse, have negative effects on people who uses fasting to maintain their healthy normal weight.
You're right though, we wont know for years until multiple long term studies are done on significantly large numbers of people. Thousands of people of varying body types and health issues need to be studied. Healthy normal weight people need to be studied to see if there is any benefit of fasting one day a week to maintain weight. Maybe this isn't good for us in the long term? We don't know. We should all be cautious until there is sufficient evidence that life long fasting is actually good for our health.

Im going to get a tape measure to check my waist.


Waist 87.5cm
Hips 80.5cm

You measure at the widest part of your waist and hips, right?

I have to say I think, in general, we are much too conservative and nervous in the West regarding fasting and it's possible detrimental effects. Of course, fasts of long duration should be undertaken with extreme caution and under strict supervision but, unless you are morbidly obese, there would be no reason for anyone to contemplate such a fast. On the other hand, thousands of people fast on a regular basis for spiritual reasons and do not appear to be any the worse for it, indeed, these groups are some of the longest lived and healthiest on the planet. The aged Sikh runner on the Horizon programme put his incredible health down to a calorie restricted vegetarian diet.

Take Theravadan Buddhists, for example, who are the least extreme of any people I know (I know many and have been on Vipassana spiritual retreats regularly). They eat only two vegetarian meals a day, breakfast and lunch. They eat nothing after midday because food is thought to interfere with meditation and preoccupation with food detracts from the practice of mindfulness. They lovingly prepare food and enjoy what they have. They fast from midday, every day of their lives, until approximately 6/7 o'clock the following day. That's approx 18 hours fasting each day. Outside the monastic community fasting in this way is completely voluntary and there is absolutely no pressure to conform, but many people do and I have observed them to be free from obesity and the preoccupation with food we are plagued with on a daily basis. Other than that, they do their work, have children, some are vegetarian, some not, some drink alcohol, some don't, some get sick and eventually all of them die - just like the rest of us. But I have never come across any anecdotal or research evidence to suggest that this daily 18 hour fast is detrimental, either in the short or long term.

What is striking, however, with this way of eating is that food is prepared from scratch with good quality ingredients and it is served in abundance. No calorie restriction, no ready meals, no crap.

The point of this rather long post (sorry!) is that I for one can't wait around for 30 years until scientists have done sufficient empirical human based research which gives the red/green light to intermittent fasting. I'm not saying that all people who follow a fasting/calorie restricted lifestyle are bursting with health, but it's all too obvious to me that the way I eat is detrimental to my health - I am obese, have chronic inflammation/arthritis, am pre-diabetic and probably have other horrible age-related stuff going on under the surface. I just wish I'd come to this way of eating 30 years ago because I am convinced my lifestyle choices have contributed massively to my current poor health and consequent low self-esteem. I haven't been able to adopt a daily fasting regime, and believe me I have tried, but in 5:2 (or 4:3 in my case) I have discovered a way of eating/fasting that is doable and sustainable and I'm already feeling the benefits. The alternative, for me, is a continued slide into old age and infirmity - unthinkable!

I found this today. http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering ... iterature/

[carorees]

Interesting link, thanks. my feeling is that the article mainly talks about ADF or daily fasting with an eating window. Twice a week fasting is a lot less severe. Also, the rat studies must be considered in the light of the higher metabolic rate of rats such that a 24 hour fast for a rat is like us fasting for several days, so one can't really extrapolate to humans. However, the advice to listen to our bodies and not to overdo fasting is very sound.

It is bound to get negative press supported by the PR people at SW WW JC CD Slim fast, Atkins etc etc as you just stop eating, no way you can make money on that!

Amen!! I think that is the reason this hasn't hit it 'big' in the press. It's very easy, does not require a counselor or therapist or 'weight loss coach' or special pills or expensive shakes or someone else to deliver special pre-packaged meals in precise quantities or any of another thousand weight-loss products or programs. The weight loss industry in the U.S.A. alone is a multi-BILLION dollar industry and yet we are getting fatter.

No one can make money off of this program and lots of hoity-toity scientists who have been telling us to 'graze all day' for the last 50 years will look like idiots when everyone finally accepts that constant eating is horrible for you on so many levels.

No wonder they don't want the science to come forth and want to try to suppress this.