The FastDay Forum

I was talking with a friend of mine who was stunned how fast I lost weight. She is on a diet since as long as I remember and tried eveything. Atkins, WW, Dukan, Montignac and I surely forgot some others. As soon as she stops the diet, even if she eats sensibly, she gains the kilos back and even more than before she began the diet.She only have 10 kilos to lose but it takes a lot of time each time, even more now. For her, it's because her body reacts to the diet and "protects" itself.

On the other hand, I never diet before this year and I lost the weight fairly easily without doing a lot of sports or starving myself. I plan to keep fasting twice a week because I like it and it makes me feel good but I won't see myself as on a diet. Big difference for me.

So do you think our diet history influence how we lose weight ? Do you think that our body has a memory and when we begin a new diet, it slows the process down ?

[carorees]

yes, I'm sure it does. I've also lost the weight easily and have rarely dieted, the last time being 10 years ago. I'm sure you're right about your friend being in starvation mode.

How can she deal with it ? I mean how can a body go for starvation mode to a more "normal" mode ? I could suggest her to try 5:2 but she alrady has a problem with it so I don't think it's a good idea. For her, the fast that you can lose weight fairly quickly and easily must be because you are anorexic or something like that

Hi Manderlay Well I know what you mean as I've had a diet history similar to your friend only probably Ten times worse and a lot of years longer
But for me personally this WOL is so different for me as I'm now totally in control of my food, instead of some crazy diet restricting me on a daily basis. So in answer to your question For me This time. NO

my diet history is one very big one of failure but all that is in the past
I'm sure your friend would really benefit from this wol because she has very little weight to lose but she would just have to concentrate on this one only. My sister seems to have been dieting in a half hearted way for many years but seemed to be doing a bit of one diet plus a bit of another
so nothing works as you say the body shuts down in protection mode
She has also said that my weightloss seem to quick I'm just coming up to the 6 months and as you know a 3 stone ( 19kg ) I don't think this is to Speady myself but I do know that the last stone has made a Fantastic difference to my shape so much so she has now joined me on the plan
she's not got anywhere near the amount as me to lose and seems to be rather slow but downwards so that's what counts Sue

Hi Manderley
For my first sixteen years i was skinny,then got some puppy fat..then anorexic for a few months,existing on just an apple and a cube of meat per day...didnt believe people when t hey said i had got too thin,but got scared when my periods stopped and started eating again.
From then on i have yoyo dieted all my life...lost loads of weight,gained back even more..time after time.
Do think the body remembers - remembers Everything, not only dieting history.
i am struggling very hard now to lose weight coz my metabolism is sluggish thru illness,low thyroid, AND thru bad eating habits over many years.
Guess i have always been an " all or nothing" person in most avenues of life..trying to change that now x If this doesn't work,i am gonna give up and sit by the fire eating biscuits and shouting at the telly.

I think the more often we have dieted in the past, the harder it is each time to shift the weight - but I don't believe it's because our bodies have changed as much as our minds have. Each time we start a new diet, it's because the previous one didn't work for us, or it did but we put the weight back on - that's got to do something to our mentality as far as feeling that "this time it will work" is concerned. We're more likely to put slightly less effort in, each time we start a new diet because we've already failed so many times before - so why on earth is it going to work this time?!?

If you're dieting for the very first time, you have no previous history of failure so your mentality is set to achieve success, rather than to expect failure.

I think if you're a constant dieter - you have to try something radically different to feel as if you're in with a chance of success - that way history may not repeat itself

I'm with you on this one Abbe,

Ballerina x

Abbe you hit the nail on the head there. It's true for me anyway
Dee

Sorry for your friend but, that has to be a qualified but absolutely definite YES.

If one loses more than 10% of one's body weight there are a whole raft of biological changes that make 'yoyo' dieting bloomin' hard to avoid. E.g. changes in the way the brain perceives food - stodge stimulates the reward centres, and how muscles use energy - they become more efficient thus requiring less energy to do stuff than one's hypothetical "never lost 10% body weight identical twin". I'll go dig the paper out.

Edit: got it - this NYT article was posted on the forum some time back, but I'm failing to find the thread, credit to OP:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magaz ... =all&_r=1&

and this paper is a pretty good (albeit a wee bit old) review of the biology:
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/301/3/R581.long

Thanks for the links, Fatdog. Read the NYT article and feeling rather depressed. Been there, done that (WW - lost 2 1/2 stone over 6 months, put it all back on + one extra stone within 3 years).

Trying to persuade myself this WOL will be different but can't stop this beastly little voice in my head whispering "What if it's not?"

Sorry folks, got a bad attack of the glumps. This too will pass. Normal Pollyanna service will be resumed shortly!

I started to answer and ended up doing a blog post so swapped it to there. So here is the link...

blog/Julieathome/index_b-1693.html

Nooooo - please don't let that depress you @shachat. In some respects it ought to be liberating - one now knows what one is up against, whereas before the yo-yo stuff happened for some vooodoo unfathomable reason, now one knows that there are solid biological reasons for it. One's not a failure at all - biology is a b*tch to fight.

Surely, in this case knowledge is strength. For example, there's good evidence (will try to dig it out tomorrow if you want) to indicate that weight lost on a low-carb approach does not lower one's resting energy requirements, which might help avoid some of the nasties that the paper points out etc. etc. Fasting does wonderful thing to various 'switches' that might help too. There really is much hope. And, if nothing else, being aware that one's TDEE is now somewhat lower *than it should be* means one can work with it.

Please take hope, and care, FatDog.

I think this WOE is different, shachat. When I think of 'going on a diet' I think of changing the way I eat and losing weight and then going back to the way I regularly eat. It has a beginning and an end. But with the 5:2, I think I will eat this way for the rest of my life. I can still eat the way I want to 5 days a week and on 2 days, increasingly easier and easier, I eat less than 500 calories. Just doing that has changed the way I feel on the other 5 days, I notice when I've had enough to eat and I stop eating sooner. I am very confident that the weight I have lost so far, is not going to go back on. It's gone for good this time. And I believe I will slowly continue to drop weight. But I do know those moments of doubt too. Come on, Pollyanna, get on out here!

I don't think it is starvation mode exactly. Maybe closer to the set point theory and just slower metabolism. I think the body works hard to maintain status quo. I know my body fights it pretty hard and it likes to hold on to everything...water, fat, weight, waste whatever. It may have more to do with hormones and thyroid or the immune system in my case. Who knows? What I know for sure is that if I have to change things up or I stop seeing results. Every few weeks I have to find some other habit to change or eat more, eat less, eat different foods. Move more, move less or try different types of exercise, etc. Because whatever used to work stops working.

The problem is that I don't really have too many vices left. All the big ones have been moderated pretty well if not eliminated. I'm afraid the last bad habit I have left to cut is artificial sweeteners. I just don't know how to work around them because sugar, honey, fruit, agave etc have too many carbs and calories for a fast day. I have a low tolerance for bitter (like the stevia plant and the foods and beverages that I sprinkle with packets.)

Also, I don't really believe that any one of the chemical white powders which come in pretty colors and packets and boxes are any more natural or any less toxic than the other. Stevia is natural...maybe that bitter plant is; but that has little to do with the powdery processed chemical stuff on the shelf at the store. I'm not sure I could get through a day without them. Fast days would be pretty bleak without the sweet taste in my tea, hot cocoa or whatever. I think the only workable option for me is to try to limit them rather than eliminate. Maybe it would work to try to match every sweetened drink ounce for ounce with a chaser glass of water. Sorry, I got off on a little tangent there.

Back to the topic...yes, I do think the body "remembers" past attempts at weight loss. Both the successes and failures. From my experience it definitely gets more difficult with every additional attempt. I think it is probably a combination of both mental and physical challenges.

CandiceMarie, thank you so much for sharing what you(ve been through. I know how our body can fight after a traumatic event and how difficult it can be to recover from it. Please, take care of yourself and don't give up. This WOE may learn you to not be so much "all or nothing" and to moderate, who knows ? It's worth the try.....

Sue, I don't think 19kgs in 6 months are too quick. I sometimes wonder if there is not a bit of "jealousy" when people say that. I know, I am mean so early in the morning.....

Abbe, I agree with you. When I was raped so long ago my body went in a self defense mode and I packed up the pounds. My weight gain was because of stress. I never was a big eater but always was an anxious person and it makes me gain weight. When I decided to go on a diet it was because I really felt the love and support of my partner and I felt ready. No pressure. My state of mind was great, I felt relaxed and so the weight went off. And I don't consider it as a diet per say but really a change of life. I will do it for the rest of my life without feeling frustrated or refusing to eat some categories of aliments. I rat a bit of everything but the key is the planning and when I fast, I have pleasure doing it, it's not a chore and I guess it helps a great deal.

shachat, please hang on to it. This WOE is different. As I said, it's not a "simple" diet and there are noh frustrations. You can keep a normal social life knowing that, if today you eat a bit too much (like I will today with a raclette...) you will be abble to keep the balance with a fast tomorrow without any guilt. It's a big difference...

43tweaker. I always drink my coffee and my tea black but I use honey, even on fast days as I drink hot lemons with honey or hot apple cider vinager and honey and it didn't stop the weight loss. Plus, honey is full of good things and you use less of it because it's stronger. Maybe you could give it a try...

Julie, I am going to read you blog