The FastDay Forum

Thank you for starting this thread Debs.
I have just got this book on my kindle & one observation she has made interested me. The reason for allowing 500 calories on a fast day is to enable our bodies to preserve muscle or as she says "maintaining lean body mass". She also says that fasting without any calories does not increase weight loss & risks losing muscle.
This is also the reason why we have all found we are losing fat not muscle doing 5:2: if even not doing exercise, although obviously some exercise helps maintain or build muscle tone. Other diets rebound with more fat gain because of the loss of muscle with the usual daily calorie restriction diet!

[Debs]

That's an interesting observation Isis, especially as I struggle without some calories on a fast day.

The exercise section is also really good for advice about holding on to muscle.

So? Is this book worth getting?

I was surprised to read how many people like to weigh daily. I always thought that could lead to disappointment and frustration but now think that maybe I'll give it a try

Bean

Hey @nursebean I would like to encourage you to try daily weighing.
Daily weighing is a controversial topic in many weight-loss programs. Weight Watchers discourages it. I do weigh daily when I am really engaged in trying to lose weight, like now on 5:2. I have been on and off diets for most of my life and I know that when I am weighing daily, I am paying attention and being more mindful of what I am doing and putting in my mouth every day.

There is tremendous variation day-to-day but I have an "Official" weigh day every week and don't pay attention too closely to the daily numbers. When I have gone off diets, WOE's, etc in the past, the first symptom is stopping weighing daily. Then it becomes an avoidant behaviour and seemingly overnight, once comfortable jeans can't even be pulled up, let alone zipped!!!! The scales get dusty and pushed out of sight.

There is a data base in the U.S. of people who have kept off a substantial amount of weight (I can't remember the name and probably Dr. Varady mentions it but I haven't read her book yet) and one of the common habits of those people is daily, or at least frequent, weighing. Give it a try and don't obsess about the numbers. It's the trends that matter, not the daily blips.
Good luck

[carieoates]

It would be very interesting to see how many here weigh daily. Maybe someone could do a poll!
I weigh daily, I tried to leave it a week, then horror ensued when I found I'd put on 2-3 lb. back to daily now for the foreseeable.

Thanks @Judithn I will give daily weighing a go...well, you've certainly convinced me to try

[carorees]

Thank you for starting this thread Debs.
I have just got this book on my kindle & one observation she has made interested me. The reason for allowing 500 calories on a fast day is to enable our bodies to preserve muscle or as she says "maintaining lean body mass". She also says that fasting without any calories does not increase weight loss & risks losing muscle.
This is also the reason why we have all found we are losing fat not muscle doing 5:2: if even not doing exercise, although obviously some exercise helps maintain or build muscle tone. Other diets rebound with more fat gain because of the loss of muscle with the usual daily calorie restriction diet!

Actually the scientific research does not support this theory about the 500cal. This study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15380889 compared surgery patients who were given either the usual 18h fast before surgery followed by glucose only at 7 kcal/kg/day (560 cals for 80kg subject), or a novel approach of parenteral feeding (tube etc) of double the above calorie rate of glucose plus the same calories of fats plus 1.5 g/kg/day of amino acids (protein).

In other words the comparison in post-operative feeding regime is between 560 cals of glucose and 2720 calories of balanced 41:41:18 C:F:P feeding both before and after surgery.

The standard group (fast then glucose only) lost 1 g protein/kg/day whereas the nitrogen balance for the fed group showed no significant change. Protein synthesis rates were unchanged.

Detailed analysis showed that the protein loss was not from muscle "This fact suggest that muscle protein breakdown begins after the first 24 h post-surgery, and that the protein donor during the early response to surgery should be an organ other than skeletal muscle. In agreement with our findings, it has been demonstrated in dogs that skeletal muscle protein breakdown does not begin immediately after injury and the degraded protein in the first 24 h after surgery is mainly of intestinal origin."

I stopped weighing myself during an epic plateau last summer. I just found it discouraging. I know from how my clothes fit if I am making progress. Maybe when it's time to maintain I'll start weighing regularly again.

I read the book this week (I haven't read all the comments here) and it took me back to what 'I signed up for' 10 months ago. 500 cals on fast days, whatever I wanted on feast days (she uses feast). I did this initially and lost weight and thought it was marvellous, then I got distracted by TDEE, carbs (not again!) and it started to feel like I had to worry again about my health. But after reading her book BASED ON SCIENCE, you can eat whatever you want on feast days, keep the weight off and have healthy blood results. I always thought 4:3 was closest to her scientific studies and did that. I will now go back to her way to lose the couple of kg I have added, mainly to slip into her maintenance (she calls it success) program. Another interesting thing from her studies is that 25% TDEE loses weight faster than 0%, in other words eating is better than no food on fast days. She doesn't advocate junk food and she does say artificial sweeteners are not good for weight loss (as wineoclock has pointed out). In my opinion this book is brilliant as it is motivational, answers most of those questions that I had, is scientifically proven and shows that EOD diet will keep the weight off without feeling restricted by thinking of food groups as good and bad..and it seems the biggest barrier to health is obesity, so once the weight comes off, the bloods appear to look good.

Ps I will now be weighing daily

Thanks for that GMH. I now have the book sitting in my Kindle and look forward to a good read....just as soon as I finish The Luminaries (this may take some time!!)

If you do weigh daily, the Libra app helps as it gives a trend weight, which is as near a "true" weight as you'll get.

It's charts a line through the ups and downs to give you a direction of travel. So even if the daily weight is up and down, you'll know if you're losing or not.

Weighing this way has stopped me jumping on the scales many times a day, huffing and puffing away, as my weight goes up by several lbs over the day.

I have always been a once a week weigher, however I can see that the thought if gaving to weigh tomorrow may stop me eating that cake...maybe

Caroline, that's an interesting link. I'll look back at the Varady book to see what she references for her choice of 25% TDEE.

Edited to add: what the 500 cal days have done for me is to make me think really hard about using those calories wisely. I (like I imagine most people here) eat extremely nutritiously on fast days. In addition to appetite control and whatever else it might do, I think those low cal days get us to really reassess the quality of our food choices. I'm sure this is an unintended benefit, but for me, an important one. One I need to remind myself when my sweet tooth kicks in.