The FastDay Forum

My Hat! 75 % fat! I cannot imagine that unless I convert it to bacon, eggs, and no toast, tomato , mushrooms, baked beans or spinach.

The spinach is ok, maybe the tomato, but forget the toast and baked beans in sugar syrup Neither of them are Paleo either.

Eggs, cheese and nuts all have about the macro ratio suggested for LCHF.

Over the last few weeks I’ve read a fair amount of stuff online about why eating a paleo/low carb diet is a good idea, main sources have been Mark’s Daily Apple (as recommended by Mosely in his Fast diet book), Gary Taubes and Peter Attia in his eatingacademy.com blog. At a high level this diet moves us towards reliance on fat as our primary energy source and reduces our dependence on carbs. In turn we lose weight and reduce the chances of being afflicted with diabetes, cancers and heart disease etc etc. Adopting this diet plus throwing in some exercise which also has the benefits of increasing insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance, a shift towards increased fat burning, raised BDNF levels and an increased sense of well being , it seems to me that you get the same benefits as following an IF regime? The one benefit that IF potentially gives is lowered IGF-1 but do we know enough yet about potential adverse effects of low IGF-1 and with all the benefits previously mentioned is it really that important to lower IGF-1?

The downsides of IF for me have been cold on fast days, irritability, poor sleeping (maybe IF linked) and sometimes constipation. My feeling is that with 5:2ing my body is not following a regular eating pattern and upsets my circadian rhythm and whilst I may be getting benefits on a fast day I abruptly dump myself back into my normal state on feed days. These effects, especially the cold over the last few months, make me think that it would be better to give up regular IF, instead throw in the odd day where I miss a meal and look at changing my diet to low carb/paleo plus maintain my current exercise regime.
Sound sensible?

http://eatingacademy.com/quick-faq#count-calories
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welcome- ... z2Li58sufm
http://garytaubes.com/

thought i would dig up this thread from way back for some of the old timers here and newbies to comment. the opening post brought up some interesting thoughts (myths)

I'm not advocating it but as a general point of information, some vegan low carb people are eating lupin-based products because lupin is relatively high in protein (up to 40%) and dietary fiber (30%) low in fat (6%) and contains little available starch; it has very low glycemic index (GI).

The Vegetarian Butcher in Hague was originally a standalone shop but its products are now available in many parts of the NL: their products were substantially based on lupin and originally most vegan. As they're meat free products that taste like meat, feel like meat, look like meat, they're more targeted at people who wish to reduce their meat intake than vegans.

ETA: Just checked. Disappointingly more of their products are now vegetarian rather than vegan and more of the range now includes soy as well as lupin. In fact, lupin seems to be in the minority but there are still items such as http://www.vegetarianbutcher.com/organi ... with-lupin
Nutrition info: energy 631 kJ/151 kcal fat 7,9 g of which - saturated fatty acids 1,0 g - mono-unsaturated fatty acids 2,6 g - poly-unsaturated fatty acids 3,7 g carbohydrates 6,7 g of which sugars 0,3 g fibre 9,1 g protein 8,7 g salt 1,7 g

In Germany, there are lupin milks and ice-creams available in some areas for people who are dairy intolerant: Lupinesse range http://www.lupinesse.de

None of the above is at all Paleo/Primal as both lupin or lupini beans needs to be heavily processed to make these products.

On the actual topic of Why not...

I've mostly treated ADF/4:3 or similar forms of IF as a schedule: the individual decides on the WOE within that schedule (mine has been modified ketogenic for >16months) according to their own needs and what suits the family/lifestyle/medical history.

An IF schedule is unlikely to preclude low carb, Paleo, Mediterranean, LOBAG or any other WOE. Any individual's best chance of succeeding with a sustainable body transformation is to find a WOE/exercise level that works for them and to tweak it in accordance with changing needs or personal information.

I strongly agree with those who say that they find it easier to modify their eating schedule than their food choices because the latter feels like restriction and for some, that can lead to resentment/rebellion/self-sabotage. That said, as some people begin to experience improved health with an IF schedule, the metabolic consequences of food choices seem to become more apparent and they start to prefer foodstuffs that don't have that impact (altho' the choice is theirs to have it on occasion if it seems appropriate).

I like cake, that's why no, and paleo diet is just... nah

[Tracieknits]

Hi kookay - welcome to the forums!

I feel the same way. If I was at all interested in low carb or paleo, I wouldn't be HERE!

I get cold too on fast days...but isn't that the body's way of reviving up the metabolism? I take the "cold" opportunity to take walks and warm up...which is a good excuse to make me exercise. I don't like to exercise overall.

I have eaten low carb...which is much like Paleo... for 2 years. The menopausal weight was creeping on even when I ate whole foods. I noticed my mind wandered to sugar as the weight was only increasing. When I started doing IF the weight came off so much easier. I combine low carb foods with 4:3 and have dropped 20 lbs since mid June! I am certain my body is dropping weight because of this IF/low carb combination. The bonus is I am not tempted to eat sugar anymore!

I'm a very slow loser and if I do 4:3 and paleo, I can lose a whole 1lb a week. If you get into the groove, you don't miss sugar.

I'll tell you why not.

Because primal/low carb as promoted by these younger healthier Type A males often won't work for older women with hormonal issues or low TDEEs. For larger males cutting the carbs also cuts out enough calories that they can lose weight pretty easily. Many think this is because of the magic of low carb, but it isn't. It's because by eliminating a ton of carbs from their diet they also eliminate a ton of calories.

The only way I can lose weight on a very low carb diet in my 60s is to eat 1100 calories a day, every day. At the end of a month, I will lose 2 lbs and be so miserable it is impossible to continue. I have tested this with careful food logging for long periods of time and it is crystal clear to me that it is ALL about the calories.

So with IF it is still about the calories, but instead of losing 2 lbs a month by eating nothing every day (1100 calories feels like starvation!) I can eat 500 calories twice a week and 1600 calories 5 days a week. I lose the same 2 lbs a week (less now that I'm 5 lbs below my original goal) and am completing my 6th month on the diet.

You will notice that almost all the enthusiasts for that dietary approach are younger males. Older women with lower TDEEs are afraid to speak up in the very enthusiastic blog environments found in the Paleo community, but I have heard from quite a few through backchannels. They think it is their own fault they can't lose, but it is because the enthusiasts insist it isn't about calories, when it is.

Cutting carbs does very nice things for the blood sugar, and that I am very much a proponent of. I also avoid processed foods because I don't want the chemicals in my body. But I have spent years eating a very clean, very low carb diet without losing an ounce, and know plenty of other women who have experienced the same thing. So if you want to lose weight, and your TDEE is much lower than the 3000 calories a day someone like Jimmy Moore could maintain his current weight on, you may find IF is much more sustainable.

@peebles. I agree it's all about the calories. My TDEE is 1300 and if I go over or do less than one fast day a week I will either gain or stay the same. I seem to have got to a happy medium of around 65g to 100g of carbs a day which is enough for oatmeal in my pancake and brown rice in my salad (neither of which are paleo!). That is still low, but keeps it low enough not to have sugar cravings. I'm also not eating as much protein as cavemen do. The only reason why 'it works' for me is because it beats cravings. However even on this plan, I'm still not losing more than 1lb a week, and with a low TDEE it feels very much like a diet to me.

@rawkaren totally off topic but can you give us the pancake recipe again..i think it involved egg plus egg whites..it sounded delish but i cant find it now x

@candicemarie. quarter cup of oatmeal, one whole egg, two egg whites. Season with herbs/salt/pepper if savory, cinnamon and stevia if sweet.

@rawkaren,

At your BMI after a long stint of dieting, it would be highly unusual to be losing 1 lb a week. The best I've been able to do is half a pound a week. And now I'm down to maybe a third of a pound.

The expectation of losing a pound a week on any diet is skewed by all the people who start out weighing north of 250 lbs who participate in diet studies and are very active in the online diet community.

Have you seen these figures on actual one month low carb weight loss comparing new and experienced dieters broken out by starting weight? They are quite illuminating:

http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/19057960.php

@skippyscuffleton: Not heard from you for ages, hope you are OK and you managed to find an effective dietary solution - your proposed strategy in this old post certainly works for me as I have maintained my target weight +/- 2 lbs since last May without having strict fast days very often. I now eat some meat as well as fish and use fats/oils less sparingly. Carb consumption depends on exercise levels, long summer bike rides ensure sufficient expenditure to be able to eat like a normal person and sometimes I have been caught out by not getting enough carbs to replenish glycogen stores, leading to poor performances at parkrun (the only running I do nowadays due to the hips).

I understand where @peebles is coming from, my BMR is only about 1400 Calories so non-exercise weeks require careful eating and carb control but I don't generally have a problem - hunger and requirements seem to match pretty well nowadays...

PS - if you have not seen this forum recently be prepared for a shocking yellow banner/barrier that spoils viewing and irritates the hell out of everybody!

Regards, Pete

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/hea ... d/follows/

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/best-diet

In other words, the best diet for you is the one that works long term, preferably without making you miserable.