The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

Yes, exercise! But we still don't know whether the feast/famine protocol we're following helps to prevent the slow down. The studies of VLCDs showed an increase in metabolic rate on increasing the calorie intake. I need to do more searching in the scientific literature.

Yes, exercise! But we still don't know whether the feast/famine protocol we're following helps to prevent the slow down. The studies of VLCDs showed an increase in metabolic rate on increasing the calorie intake. I need to do more searching in the scientific literature.

Hmmm its all very interesting.

I have 2 fast days, 4 days slughtly under TDEE and 1 mega binge day. Is that shaking it up sufficiently do you reckon?

[carorees]

Seems to work for me! I had a big social occasion a couple of weeks ago and got an immediate response in increased weightloss.

So the RMR decreases with weight loss that was achieved by a very low cal diet. That should be the conclusion from that article. We don't know what really happens to our RMR with intermittent fasting. I looked for articles but could not find any.
My theory which is also based on my personal experience is that it increases.
For about 8 years I was counting my calories religiolously (apart fom calories from non starchy veggies) and have been eating 1400 cal on weekdays and 1500 in the weekends. I also excercised 5-6 times a week doing vigorous training on my elliptical for 35 min 5 times and twice a week weight trainng for 1/2 hour. I was able to maintain my weight of 53 kg on that regime.
When I heard about the fast diet I was very skeptic since it meant increasing my calorie consumption by about 700 calories per week, but I decided to give it a try anyway and I was very surprised when I lost weight. (1 pound per week for 3 weeks). So it is not a simple calculation of calories in and calories out. There is another element in the equation and this is my metabolic rate. I made no change in my excercise routine during this period. So I became a believer. I believe that the feast and famine approach has a positive effect on my metabolism. This needs to be proven scientifically though, on a larger sample and with accurate RMR measurements.

Hi,

I know I posted last night about my week-end bingeing, hence now I am analysing my 5:2 strategy and thinking of possible changes.

Can anyone shed any light on the following: How about eating lower than TDEE Maintenance Calories (perhaps as per the Extreme Loss on the calorie calculator) on Feast days then you'd lose even more weight? There has been talk about not eating enough and need to eat up to the recommended TDEE to trigger your metabolism.

You can do that if you like. I prefer to just eat responsibly on my feast days. It enables me to enjoy life a little more.

It's just occurred to me (I'll probably get shot straight down) but wouldn't it work if you cut out food altogether on fast days? It'd save 1000cals straight off if you could manage it. I'm under the impression that food on fast days is just a sweetener to make the diet more palatable.

[carorees]

It might or it might not! I saw a paper looking at thyroid function during fasting. In some individuals a decrease in thyroid function was seen as early as 24 hours into the fast. Decreased thyroid function means lower metabolic rate. This was only some individuals so chances are that 36 hours on no cals would be ok. As many people who struggle with their weight already have thyroid problems, I'd be cautious about such an approach. Also longer fasts increase cortisol which can hinder weight loss and worsen glucose metabolism.

Reading the various postings on this website, it really does seem more and more that we each have very individual responses to different ways of eating, types of food etc. If the standard 5:2 method doesn't quite work to your satisfaction, the answer seems to be to experiment until you find what's best for you personally.

A bit like life, really!

It has worked for me in the past.
I did 2 3 days fasts with water, lemon and syrup. I lost 4 kilos but that was pre-thyroid. Or before I knew I had a problem with my thyroid, I can't be sure!

No, it says metabolism slows by more than predicted from the body composition, so your metabolism is disproportionately slower after dieting down to 8st than if you had been 8st all along.

RESULTS:
The ratio of RMRm to RMRp decreased from 1.004 ± 0.077 before the diet to 0.963 ± 0.073 after the diet (P < 0.001)

RMRm = measured
RMRp = predicted

Oh dear


Is this the body rebelling against the diet?

Do you know if there are any studies which show ways you can increase metabolism? (the holy grail I know, perhaps exercise?)

Yep! Exercise will do it! Some exercise will elevate your metabolism for many hours after the actual exercise.

Oh dear, my brain rebels at all this. I have had years of diets ruling my life and that has caused most of my issues with food. What I love about this is I don't really have to think, or hunt or special foods or deny myself the things I love. All I have to do is fast twice a week which I mostly can do and be sensible the rest of the time. If OH says 'let's go to our favourite pizza place tonight' I can look forward to a lovely meal out without worrying about how many points/calories, if the combination/time of day are right. I now eat proper food made by me and have discovered I love cooking! If looking at all the science does for you great, for me, I need a more simple approach.

But presumably a slower metabolism means that the body is in repair mode (hence the health benefits) rather than as Dr M puts it, 'go go' mode? Maybe not so good for weight loss but much better for us overall I would think. I plan to restrict my carb intake somewhat on feast days, not just because I want to lose weight, but I also think it suits my metabolism better. I always find I feel ill after eating too many carbs in whatever form.

Second fast day today, and I'm trying out the eat-all-my-calories-in-evening-meal method to see how I get on with it. After all the indulgences and excesses of the weekend (must've eaten my own body weight in chocolate! Too many carbs!!) I think I need to detox lol

If looking at all the science does for you great, for me, I need a more simple approach.

I don't think it's necessary to know or understand the science behind it all, as long as doing what you're doing is working for you then great, just keep doing it!

[carorees]

Stephie, that's an interesting point. The metabolic slow down is, I think, effected by changes in thyroid function and mitochondrial activity. The repair function is linked to nutrient sensing pathways at least partly mediated by IGF1 and its receptor. I don't know whether/how the two systems interact.

However, I think that for me weightloss is the priority. If/when I reach my target, I'll have to consider how to maximise autophagy!

Re the carbs...as well as protein, mTOR (which is the downstream site of action of IGF1) is upregulated by glucose, so it's good to cut carbs on fast days.

Can anyone shed any light on the following: How about eating lower than TDEE Maintenance Calories (perhaps as per the Extreme Loss on the calorie calculator) on Feast days then you'd lose even more weight?
xx

If you do that - will you be able to continue this for the time needed to reach your target weight? In my case, 5:2 achieves weight loss at approximately the same rate as calorie restriction; but psychologically 5:2 has been so much easier!!!! Also, I crave food less, and I am much more relaxed about food.

Why don't you consider doing 4:3 instead? The jury is still out on whether that works better than 5:2 and for whom, but it means fewer calories/week while not being in control mode every single day, and varying calories per day (in case that actually has a beneficial effect).