The FastDay Forum

I think what I'm getting from all these replies is that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. It's very interesting to see how people approach this WOE and I'm grateful that you all took the time to respond.

Personally I do think a TDEE is important as it pertains to my body and lifestyle, but I'm not going to count calories on my NF days because then I might as well do one of the other well-known diets out there.

I just know now that I can't eat as much as my flatmate and expect to lose weight. As I said, I'm still very new at all this so will try to follow the 'rules' until I feel it's not working, then I'll start 'tweaking'. Hopefully by then I'll have read a lot more on here and will be a lot better informed.

Hi Moogie - I've been thinking. Perhaps MM has introduced a section about TDEEs because he realises that his original idea of "eat what you like on non-fast days" doesn't always work!!

[Moogie]

Perhaps Although I suspect he simply didn't consider that people might take 'eat what you like' to mean 'eat as much as you like' when he really meant 'eat normally, no foods forbidden' - he probably didn't consider that a lot of people have no idea what 'normal' really is, which is probably why so many of us gained weight in the first place - oops!

What I don't understand though, Moogie, is that he's a doctor, and he should have known that an invitation to "eat what you like" could lead to some people having a field day!

Yesterday, I noticed a comment from someone on an old thread, saying that they had started eating unhealthy foods, even though they weren't before, because MM said it would be OK.

If he has introduced a TDEE section on his website, doesn't that make his book worthless?

Will he printing an updated version now, I wonder?! Has he lost any credibility, because this huge sea-change is really an admission that all is not as it seems?!

Hi Izzy - I agree. It is an extra tool that can help some people, but, by adding a TDEE section to his website, MM is surely admitting that what he wrote in his book isn't working for a lot of people.

Will he give refunds, I wonder?!!

Well I think Dr M would just say it is a 'clarification'

@tomtank, did you see my post on the 'different take on the calorie' topic? I am genuinely interested to understand how you (and Sam Feltham) can consume so many calories without the usual effect on weight. I'm thinking it's to do with a ketogenic diet raising metabolic rate? OK I will go away now and let this get back on-topic...

Hi Dominic. Yes. I did see your post. A while ago, I posted details of a chap that Robert Atkins was treating, where he only dropped his daily calorie level by a small margin, and yet lost a lot of weight as opposed to gaining it.

I can't remember who wrote on the forum that they didn't believe it. I will have to look back.

I am not a scientist, but all I know is that by eating a low-carb diet, calories really don't matter at all.

Izzy - Yes. I will definitely be writing to him. He is going against what he originally preached.

The forum is great for support and info, but I still think he has made a load of money from something he must now know isn't 100%.

Just my two cents: my TDEE isn't particularly low, but I have been counting cals because this is the first diet I have been on. I had no idea the number of calories in particular foods, or hi/low GI (glycemic index), or even why low carb is good especially when so many fruits are in there. I am losing weight even though I have a (what are they called?) Way Hey day once or twice a week. I think I average out, but since I am losing, I haven't bothered to average! So this WOE of eating has opened my eyes in many ways and the varied discussions on foods has been wonderful! I look forward to reading on this forum each day.

My take on Dr. MM, I think Moogie is right when she said when he said eat normally, he meant just that, not eat whatever you like.

[carorees]

I haven't a clue what my TDEE is, because it's totally irrelevant. This is a WOE that shouldn't be dependent on how many calories we eat on non-fast days.

It's good to see so many new people on the forum, injecting different ideas and opinions, but, equally, it must be confusing for them to see information that doesn't match what they have read in MM's book.

There is never any need to go hungry on non-fast days. As many of you know, I eat a low-carb diet, and am on the 5:2 WOE for the alleged health benefits.

Interestingly, I see that the official fast diet website has recently added a TDEE calculator!!! I'm guessing that M & M are discovering that for some people, TDEE does matter! I wonder if they will revise their book at some stage?

debbiejgb - page 87 in MM's book.

"...tomorrow will always be different. There may be pancakes for breakfast, or lunch with friends, wine with supper, apple pie with cream ...tomorrow you can eat as you please."

Hi carorees - I don't see how they can only revise the book. In my mind, MM's whole concept of 5:2 has been turned on its head!

page 87 in MM's book: "...tomorrow will always be different. There may be pancakes for breakfast, or lunch with friends, wine with supper, apple pie with cream ...tomorrow you can eat as you please."

I have to agree that is very carelessly written...

Dominic - not carelessly written - he must have known that this could result in very-overweight people tucking into unhealthy foods.

Earlier in his book (page 54), he describes the horrors of diabetes.

He then goes on to say that, in order to prevent the downward spiral into this awful disease, we can either cut back on carbs and eat fats and vegetables instead, or try intermittent fasting.

How can fasting for two days a week cancel out the damage done by eating unhealthy foods for the other five days?

I have to add that this doesn't apply to everyone.

tomtank - this is a different debate, but Dr Krista Varady's research shows that people restricting calories (on ADF) showed significant improvements in health markers irrespective of what they were eating on non-fast days. That's the magic of intermittent fasting!