The FastDay Forum

What both tales show is that for many people, eating and drinking for pleasure is a very strong urge, and that if a pleasurable way around a restriction is found, it then requires just as much willpower to not take it as it would to follow any other eating plan. Of course, the band itself is an innocent tool, but by its very nature it goes against how we humans are constructed to function physically, which is bound to have a knock on effect on many people's psyche. Neither lady in question has had her band for more than five years, and neither is lacking in intelligence. They are both mothers who work and lead hectic lives, and so maybe the need/urge to comfort eat or drink is particularly strong for them? Who knows.

I personally would have a hard time justifying putting myself through any operation and the inherent risk, that wasn't absolutely necessary. As the mother of two girls (these ladies both have boys), I also feel it is imperative that I don't let vanity or laziness rule my choices as to how I get and stay healthy.

I claim that these two individuals do not take personal responsibility in this situation. One lives on crisps and chocolate alone and the other uses the excuse that tomato juice is nutritious, therefor she is gulping down Bloody Marys. If they at least admitted that what they do sucks, they have a problem I would accept it but they choose to continue with it. To insult people near them instead of taking responsibility is in my book one example of severe disrespect towards themselves and people near them.

If I was a surgeon I would not operate on these two ladies. One can't help people who do not want to help themselves. Although I am personally not a fan of GBP and similar surgery, lets put the blame where it belongs.

I claim that these two individuals do not take personal responsibility in this situation. One lives on crisps and chocolate alone and the other uses the excuse that tomato juice is nutritious, therefor she is gulping down Bloody Marys. If they at least admitted that what they do sucks, they have a problem I would accept it but they choose to continue with it. To insult people near them instead of taking responsibility is in my book one example of severe disrespect towards themselves and people near them.

If I was a surgeon I would not operate on these two ladies. One can't help people who do not want to help themselves. Although I am personally not a fan of GBP and similar surgery, lets put the blame where it belongs.

Who said they don't admit it? You are making presumptions. I only know that one eats rubbish because she admits it. I'm fairly certain she doesn't ONLY eat crisps and chocolate though, if we're going to be pedantic. Neither has ever, in conversation with me, sought to blame anyone but themselves for their weight, size or the success of failure of the operation, and I never said that they had.

Also, their life and mindset at the time they had the surgery may well be; in fact based on what I know is likely to be, quite different to what is going on in their lives now. Perhaps at the beginning they felt in control and ate responsibly. Their surgeons probably made a perfectly sound judgement call at the time. I didn't know either lady at the time so I can't comment.

The point I have been attempting to make from the outset is that surgery is only a physical reinforcement of what a patient wants to make happen and takes control of. Given the danger of surgery, the relative ease in which the barrier can be circumvented, what is the point of having the surgery? It's certainly not a guarantee of success. The people who do well after it may well have succeeded just as well had they encountered the right eating plan for them beforehand.

Over and out

If one is intelligent and the excuse one uses to become an alcoholic on bloody marys is that tomato juice is nutritious I can come up with five or six things that person is dishonest about.

We have different views on this, so over and out seems to make sense.

If one is intelligent and the excuse one uses to become an alcoholic on bloody marys is that tomato juice is nutritious I can come up with five or six things that person is dishonest about.

We have different views on this, so over and out seems to make sense.

This is rude, DomDom. If you want to end the conversation, then do so, but to get in a last word and then claim "over and out" is sneaky and unfair.

I did not claim over and out. Winsome claimed over and out and I said that it seems to make sense. Thanks for reading.

Ah then I'll correct it. Both are rude. Thanks for not being snarky about it, Dom.

[
I took to the search engines, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23807753 tells me of lap-band failures and revisional bypass surgery. " The body mass index before gastric banding (43.3 kg/m2) decreased significantly to 37.9 kg/m2 before gastric bypass and to 28.8 kg/m2 5 years after gastric bypass."

Quite sad tales, wish I hadn't read it over lunch. The paper also pointed to a lack of long term follow-up studies. Seems like it's all a big experiment.

But this is exactly what has started off the plague of "sleevers" in Australia in the last 2 years. No idea if this is big in America or UK (anyone know).. sleevers are people who have undergone or about to undergo the bariatric surgery called Sleeving or Laparoscopic Sleeve Gastrectomy. It is REMOVAL OF 80% YES 80% OF THEIR STOMACH ORGANS.

Apparently it doesnt have the complications of bypass or banding and hence the popularity.

But it is removal of most of a vital organ leading to the need to have long term vitamin intake. i guess thats not a big deal but it all seems wrong.

Warniing.. Dont watch this over lunch.. 2 of many you tube videos on this procedure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wTeAzRq60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFV-73XjspY

I am a bit confused. Doesn't this study observe people who have had failed gastric banding and then have gastric bypass surgery? Is sleeving a third method or is it interchangeable with GBP?

I am a bit confused. Doesn't this study observe people who have had failed gastric banding and then have gastric bypass surgery? Is sleeving a third method or is it interchangeable with GBP?

that was my link, yes, remedial surgery.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/bariatric-surgery/types.html

Sleeve gastrectomy involves surgically removing the left side of the stomach, leaving a much smaller stomach about the size and shape of a banana.

I am a bit confused. Doesn't this study observe people who have had failed gastric banding and then have gastric bypass surgery? Is sleeving a third method or is it interchangeable with GBP?

that was my link, yes, remedial surgery.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/bariatric-surgery/types.html

Sleeve gastrectomy involves surgically removing the left side of the stomach, leaving a much smaller stomach about the size and shape of a banana.

this pic looks more accurate for sleeve gastrectomy as its 80% removal



or this (omg this is horrible and graphic sorry but its what happens. looks like garden shears!!!)

Stomach surgery is in the media again.

Please comment
https://www.facebook.com/newideamagazin ... =1&theater

Check out the mortality rate. Most studies only report deaths and complications within the first 6 weeks of the surgery. But many other people die in later years from malnutrition caused by the stomach no longer being able to absorb vitamins and minerals.

Here is the most recent review of research from the high impact Journal of the American Medical Association:
http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1790378 It states:

"... the mortality rate within 30 days was 0.08% (95% CI, 0.01%-0.24%); the mortality rate after 30 days was 0.31% (95% CI, 0.01%-0.75%). Body mass index loss at 5 years postsurgery was 12 to 17. The complication rate was 17% (95% CI, 11%-23%),"
Note this data doesn't include the people who die a few years later from malnutrition. The best known of these in the U.S. was the mother of American Idol contestant Elliot Yamin who appeared on the show several times. People complimented her on her weight loss, which was dramatic--and killed her the next year.

There are an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 weight loss surgeries a year performed in the U.S.. So that mortality rate means somewhere between 465 and 620 people die each year within a month of the surgery and 25,500 to 34,000 experience serious complications. If a drug killed this many people, it would be taken off the market.

I would consider this a last ditch solution only to be tried after supported dieting (with counselling, support group, etc) had failed.

Well done, @Juliana.Rivers, for flagging this up again.
Just before Christmas there was a news item in Britain saying that more gastric bypass operations were to be made available on the National Health Service (ie totally free) because it was a better 'value for money' option than treating people for obesity-related illnesses such as diabetes and heart problems!
I think that the money would be spent better in educating people about how to eat more healthily and supporting them more closely in their chosen weight-loss programme. Those mortality rates are very telling, @peebles, and yet still people opt for the ops! Madness or desperation?

Before I started this WOE I was at a weight where I could probably have qualified for surgery and to be honest I was so fed up and disillusioned I might have considered it. However, I would have felt a complete failure. I know this way of doing it is slower but I am hoping that it will mean that things go back where they are supposed to! I do think it is a shame that people are losing sight of common sense - I don't think making surgery more accessible is the way to solve our obesity crisis at all.