The FastDay Forum

I think it is important to keep in mind that that there several good ways to losing weight and improving health. I am a categorical person by nature and call them as I see them, but when it comes to personal choices there simply isn't anything right or wrong. It is not a case of objective reality not existing, but more a case of it being the wrong perspective to look for right or wrong here. Surgery can be right for one person while 5:2 or low carb is better for someone else.

I think it is important to discuss pros and cons of each method, be honest to oneself and make ones decision. Something I am negative about when it comes to the surgical approach is that repetition of "I have tried everything, but I can't." Be honest instead and say that you do not want to fast, low carb etc and that surgery is your preferred option. I think too many people blame their failures on the diet instead of taking personal responsibility. Some even blame supermarkets.

Anyway, being overweight myself I know that I have never been forcefed crap and even if some people and institutions have not helped me along the way, I am not a victim unless I allow myself to be one.

A friend asked me to go with her, two and a half years ago, to have a chat with the surgeon. We listened carefully to everything he had to say, the upshot of which was a weightloss for me of over 3 stones, done naturally - the last 2 stones have been by following this WOE. It horrified me, hearing what he had to say.
She decided against it, but hasn't lost weight. She now has type 2 diabetes. She and her hub live mainly on ready meals. She is very much against my WOE (I've written about this on here) and we don't mention it any more.

I've been friends with her now for nearly 30 years and we used to be skinny minnies together!

For me, there is absolutely no contest; it's 5/2 every time, but accept that 'each unto his/her own'.

Penny: Which WOE does your friend prefer? Surely not ready meals, diabetes and obesity?

I think it is important to keep in mind that that there several good ways to losing weight and improving health. I am a categorical person by nature and call them as I see them, but when it comes to personal choices there simply isn't anything right or wrong. It is not a case of objective reality not existing, but more a case of it being the wrong perspective to look for right or wrong here. Surgery can be right for one person while 5:2 or low carb is better for someone else.

I think it is important to discuss pros and cons of each method, be honest to oneself and make ones decision. Something I am negative about when it comes to the surgical approach is that repetition of "I have tried everything, but I can't." Be honest instead and say that you do not want to fast, low carb etc and that surgery is your preferred option. I think too many people blame their failures on the diet instead of taking personal responsibility. Some even blame supermarkets.

Anyway, being overweight myself I know that I have never been forcefed crap and even if some people and institutions have not helped me along the way, I am not a victim unless I allow myself to be one.

Very well said. Personal responsibility for one's health situation is such an important thing. Easy to blame supermarkets. My weightloss training friend has a mottle. only shop on the outside of supermarket .not the inside lanes. cause its around the perimeter you usaually find the fruit and veg and dairy, eggs, and usually some propertion of healthy frozen foods.

Believe me, Dom, it is something that has become a bit of an elephant between us (no pun intended).
She is under a dietician , so I hope success will eventually prevail for her.

She decided against it, but hasn't lost weight. She now has type 2 diabetes. She and her hub live mainly on ready meals. She is very much against my WOE (I've written about this on here) and we don't mention it any more.
.

Are they happy in their current situation?
Are they in denial they even have a problem ?

Ive been observing people in supermarkets since this WOE. and notice the couples tend to "grow big together" . their denial/bad behavior is somehow enhanced by their relationship. Rather than working together at fighting their problem, they make excuses for themselves within their day to day living.

I get so judgemental too when i observe what people put into their trolleys and end up with a bill of hundreds for mostly sugar, carbs and fat. Of course never say anything if they are strangers but i do hear that people do.

I only know one person who's had surgery (two different kinds actually), and she's still morbidly obese-there was no long term success with the procedures for her.

I on the other hand have lost almost 50lbs doing alternate day IF (or 4:3), and I learned how to have a healthy relationship with food in the process, as well as breaking my night time binge eating habit. I had to go through the process of losing the weight at a slower pace, in order to learn new, good habits. Losing weight is relatively easy, regardless of what plan/procedure you do, it's the keeping it off for 20, 30 or 40 years that's the hard part. Doing a weight loss surgery (or a diet pill etc), just doesn't seem to set people up with the tools they need to give them a good chance at long term success....

Well done on your success, SJVZEE.

The only person I know who opted for surgery has done remarkably well, roughly two years on. Since a good friend is doing the surgery as well I read up on the topic a bit and the studies I found showed good results overall.

I agree with you that with the wrong mindset it will fail, but so will anything else as well. I am sure your friend did not follow the doctor's orders. A bit like binging on fast days.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how one lives with weight loss surgery once the weight has gone - let's say your BMI has fallen to 20 and you need to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain a healthy weight - is that achievable ?

I know two people who have had gastric bands for a few years now. One has lost about 5 sone and the other has lost about 4. Both are about a size 14 and 5'5" tall. Both exercise regularly, one more than the other (she runs a lot) so have definitely toned up quite a bit along the way. Incidentally, both paid to have their ops done privately.

Unfortunately, one basically lives on chocolate and crisps, and is regularly ill with quite serious chest infections, bad colds and so forth. How she manages to exercise as much as she does on the rubbish she freely admits that she eats is beyond me.

The other... Well she is now most definitely an alcoholic. I realised this a couple of year ago when, after a very heavy night of drinking, she mixed a flask of very strong Bloody Mary to take with her on a walk in the Derbyshire hills her argument is that tomato juice is nutritious. Since then I've watched her drink to excess while shunning food more often than I like, to the extent that a night out with her is one where my guard is constantly up.

I keep my opinions to myself when talking to both of them, and its each to their own choices. I can't say they've given me a great opinion of the merits of bariatric surgery though!

Phil, as per my post, its definitely easy for people to consume 2000 calories a day with a gastric band. It's just likely to be that they're eating or drinking rubbish!

I know two people who have had gastric bands for a few years now. One has lost about 5 sone and the other has lost about 4. Both are about a size 14 and 5'5" tall. Both exercise regularly, one more than the other (she runs a lot) so have definitely toned up quite a bit along the way. Incidentally, both paid to have their ops done privately.

Unfortunately, one basically lives on chocolate and crisps, and is regularly ill with quite serious chest infections, bad colds and so forth. How she manages to exercise as much as she does on the rubbish she freely admits that she eats is beyond me.

The other... Well she is now most definitely an alcoholic. I realised this a couple of year ago when, after a very heavy night of drinking, she mixed a flask of very strong Bloody Mary to take with her on a walk in the Derbyshire hills her argument is that tomato juice is nutritious. Since then I've watched her drink to excess while shunning food more often than I like, to the extent that a night out with her is one where my guard is constantly up.

I keep my opinions to myself when talking to both of them, and its each to their own choices. I can't say they've given me a great opinion of the merits of bariatric surgery though!

Cripes that's horrid (both stories)

I know two people who have had gastric bands for a few years now. One has lost about 5 sone and the other has lost about 4. Both are about a size 14 and 5'5" tall. Both exercise regularly, one more than the other (she runs a lot) so have definitely toned up quite a bit along the way. Incidentally, both paid to have their ops done privately.

Unfortunately, one basically lives on chocolate and crisps, and is regularly ill with quite serious chest infections, bad colds and so forth. How she manages to exercise as much as she does on the rubbish she freely admits that she eats is beyond me.

The other... Well she is now most definitely an alcoholic. I realised this a couple of year ago when, after a very heavy night of drinking, she mixed a flask of very strong Bloody Mary to take with her on a walk in the Derbyshire hills her argument is that tomato juice is nutritious. Since then I've watched her drink to excess while shunning food more often than I like, to the extent that a night out with her is one where my guard is constantly up.

I keep my opinions to myself when talking to both of them, and its each to their own choices. I can't say they've given me a great opinion of the merits of bariatric surgery though!

I would say that neither story says anything about bariatric surgery but speaks volumes about these two persons. It may have been different decades ago but today they don't operate on you without sharing pros and cons and explain how to use the surgery as an aid alongside changing eating habits and lifestyle, both pre and post op. Just by googling for 20 minutes you would find vast amounts of useful information.

As with most things, the problem seldom lies with external factors but with people's attitudes, values and willingness to take personal responsibility for their fortune or misfortune.

Phil, as per my post, its definitely easy for people to consume 2000 calories a day with a gastric band. It's just likely to be that they're eating or drinking rubbish!

Indeed, sitting down with a bottle of vodka and another of rapeseed oil, living the gastric surgery lifestyle

I took to the search engines, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23807753 tells me of lap-band failures and revisional bypass surgery. " The body mass index before gastric banding (43.3 kg/m2) decreased significantly to 37.9 kg/m2 before gastric bypass and to 28.8 kg/m2 5 years after gastric bypass."

Quite sad tales, wish I hadn't read it over lunch. The paper also pointed to a lack of long term follow-up studies. Seems like it's all a big experiment.

[carorees]

The paper PhilT found also says:

 The most common indications for band removal were band migration, insufficient weight loss, and pouch dilation. 

which translates as "continued overeating"