The FastDay Forum

[Tracieknits]

Oh I've been wobbling since November I've been trying to do 4:3 for the past three weeks, but I'm already starting to think that wasn't a smart move. I'm kind of obsessed with food on my feed days, and emotionally wanting very much to eat nonstop - even when I'm not physically hungry. On my fast days, I'm finding it nearly impossible to stick to 500 calories, and I've been ending up between 750 and 1000. And the scale has started moving in the wrong direction

I think I need to start journaling and I think I need to reread "Don't Go Hungry For Life" so that I can get a grip on this emotional/stress eating. And I think I'm stopping 4:3 as psychologically it's not been easy.

We're going to have some pretty obnoxious heat starting tomorrow (89f/30c+) so hopefully that will help to kill my appetite.

Thanks for setting this up, Hazelnut!

Welcome back Debs & just in time to join the wobbling tent inmates. I also find that it is so difficult to find a balance between continuing to enjoy food but to also keep a check on what I eat, which is why I put on weight in the first place. I realise that I have lately also become very inactive becoming quite addicted to reading my Kindle & learning how to knit. But in the hope of putting my best foot forward I have just bought myself a Fitbit, not that I have a clue how to operate it when I get it or how to connect it to my iPad but rather hoping my more computer literate engineer husband will
I hope sharing your wobbles will help!

[Tracieknits]

Great job [tag]Isis[\tag]! I think the fitbit is a fantastic tool/motivator and even when I'm struggling with food, I find it easier to at least reach my step goals. I hope you'll join us in the fitbit monthly post.

Don't feel you have to start at 10K. Definitely work up to it as they suggest. And don't worry about setting it up - it's really fairly intuitive.

Oh thank you for the encouragement Tracieknits
I have become so slothful so must do something! Now my husband has fully retired we are joining in local health walks around our local countryside & woods but not last week because of pouring rain. Our local group walks are organised into different levels of difficulty so we are starting with health & level 1/2 that usually last an hour & are 3/4 miles long.

I think I need to start journaling and I think I need to reread "Don't Go Hungry For Life" so that I can get a grip on this emotional/stress eating. And I think I'm stopping 4:3 as psychologically it's not been easy.

I think @sassy1 has read this book, along with the author's latest book(s), and she finds much of this approach very helpful and insightful. Maybe she will join in the conversation with some hints and thoughts.

Thanks @lovemyparrot (!!!)

A number of people in this forum have referred to Dr Amanda Sainsbury-Salis' "Don't go hungry" books. I really do recommend reading them - I was able to borrow them online from our local library.

Here is a summary of the approach she recommends, taken directly from her books.

1 Eat according to your physical needs
A Eat when and only when you are physically hungry
B Eat what you really feel like eating
C Eat til you feel truly satisfied

When hungry, check:
1 Will this food feel good when I am eating it?
2 Will this food feel good once it is in my stomach?
3 Will this food feel good 1-2 hours after I have eaten it?

2 Keep a Success Diary
On each day record how hungry you are before you eat or drink (excluding water), what you eat or drink, and how satisfied you after.
So this until you feel 100% happy with what you weight is doing and 100% confident you know why it is doing what it is.

3 Eat a large variety of mainly whole foods, especially vegetables and fruit (mix of cooked and uncooked).

AND DON'T BE PUT OFF HER ADVICE BY THIS...
4 Eat breakfast.
It will help put you in a positive frame of mind for the day, and make it easier to eat nutritious food in accordance with your physical needs.

5 Do some form of regular physical activity.

I will make some comments on this in the post that follows.

Amanda's approach is simple but it is not necessarily easy.

Learning to accurately read your body's signals about how hungry you are, what you need to eat, and how satisfied you are, may take time. After all, if we were good at this, we probably would not have had a weight issue in the first place!

It can seem so much easier to have a set of rules to follow, which is what most diets are. But most of us do end up breaking these rules and giving up.

However, once you eat according to your body's needs, there is no need to calorie count or restrict the range of foods you eat, and you can use this approach whatever is happening in your life.

Amanda's books can help you identify what your eating issues are (though you probably know this already!) and are full of real life examples and strategies to help deal with your eating issues.

People do wonder how you can lose weight this way - we are used to having to suffer in some way in order to lose weight! The theory is that if you weigh more than your "natural" weight (and Amanda's approach does assume that there is such a weight, determined by your genes, and no doubt other factors) then you are eating more than your body needs. By following her approach, you are very likely to eat less, or eat more wholesomely, or eat when your body needs feeding, and this will lead to weight loss. She explains this in much more detail in her book.

I will talk more about my own experience in the maintenance thread.

Do have a read of both her books! They are easy to read and her approach is backed by science.

Best wishes for your weight loss journey.

For those of you struggling, can I strongly support trying the "back to basics", as suggested by @Isis in her other thread.

Go back to Michael Mosley's original idea - on 2 days a week (no more), reduce your calories to 400-500, and on the other days, eat "normally" - which I interpret as "according to your body's needs".

Eat when you are hungry (before you get ravenous), eat a wide variety of mainly whole foods (lots of vegetables and enough fruit) and eat enough to satisfy you. Don't restrict any foods, unless there are medical reasons for doing so.

And do some exercise - start small and aim for those 10,000+ steps a day.

This approach worked for me, I lost 18kgs in 6 months.

Very best wishes whatever you decide, and good luck!

For those of you struggling, can I strongly support trying the "back to basics", as suggested by @Isis in her other thread.

Go back to Michael Mosley's original idea - on 2 days a week (no more), reduce your calories to 400-500, and on the other days, eat "normally" - which I interpret as "according to your body's needs".

I agree with this too - from a personal point of view, I quickly realised that adding much in the way of extras, such as calorie counting or other restriction (such as reducing carbs) to my non-fasting days was going to lead to diet fatigue and therefore be unsustainable for me. Keeping to Michael Mosley's original idea has made things pretty slow in the weight loss/shape change department but I know that at least it's kept me on the wagon rather than falling off it entirely.

What lead me to this (rather excellent) tent, though, is that on 5:2, and even now I'm trying to maintain, I struggle with near-constant feelings of hunger, on both fasting and feasting days. This makes the 'eating according to your body's needs' rather difficult as if I eat until I'm truly sated on a feast day that is A LOT of food. What 5:2 has taught me is how to ignore/distract myself from low level hunger pangs and wait for the serious hunger to kick in! But it's really hard sometimes and means that when I do eat I have a tendency to serve myself oversized portions of things. What I'm trying to work on is working out what my body wants me to eat at any given time, as I wonder if it isn't satisfied because I'm eating the wrong things?

[wildmissus]

Here I am, I have brought my wobbly bits into the wobbly tent.

Like @Tracieknits, I just can't stop eating at the moment. Fast days mean don't eat until about 2:30pm when I come home from work then eat as much as possible as 'fast' as I can. Non-fast days are a bit better as I have three healthy meals a day although I still eat bad carbs on top of that. I feel like my non thinking brain has taken over as my thinking brain knows what I am doing and I am not physically hungry when I overeat.

There could be two reasons. Firstly, hormones due to my age, ie. I have a few more menopausal symptoms than a year ago. Secondly, hormones due to what I am eating, ie. too many refined cards which make you want to eat more and more refined carbs.

@Sassy1, I too have read the Amanda Sainsbury-Sallis books and they do make so much sense but I just seem to have lost the switch that turns on the physical awareness.

I think some people are mentally stronger than others and that changes all the time. At the moment I am quite low in mental strength - so low that I ended up off ill from work with stress at the beginning of April for two weeks. I know stress has a really negative effect on weight loss.

I am still committed to getting my physical and mental health in excellent condition. I will not be beaten and I still see fasting as the way forward. I have buddied up with @Hazelnut20 and I am also 'going back to basics' as @Isis said. So next week I WILL fast on Monday and Thursday keeping to 500cals, I probably haven't had a successful fast so far this year. I will of course report back.

[Tracieknits]

I'm also having lots of hormonal changes due to my thyroid. My T4 levels swung from 2.4 on April 1 to 0.9 on May 1. My gyn has no idea if my symptoms are due to thyroid or menopause. Sigh.

I hope you get it under control, Wildmissus! I'm going to give myself a week of calm and go back to 5:2 next week.

Yesterday actually ended up being much more sensible in my eating. I had a whole-milk yogurt (homemade!) with nothing added - including no jam. Then I had a no carb lunch of veggie hash (no potatotes!), two eggs and two small chicken breakfast sausage. I made spiced nuts without the sugar in the afternoon, then we had a beautiful pasta with lots of veggies and white beans, and a spicy turkey sausage. I did NOT have dessert either, which I have been having far too often since November. So this was much better than the last couple of weeks.

Off to get the first of my fitbit steps in!

[carorees]

I've been reading a fair bit about thyroid problems of late and noted that excessive dieting can suppress thyroid function, so I would certainly caution against adding more and more restrictions in order to try to beat the weight loss plateau. A lot of people who struggle with their weight likely have reduced thyroid function but sadly not enough to be picked up by the crude tests and poor understanding of most doctors. A few things can maybe help with supporting thyroid function, which I have gleaned from around the web.

Some things that should be avoided: Soya in any form (beans, milk, sauce); going very low carb; possibly green tea
Some things that should be eaten in moderation: Certain veggies: brussels sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swede, turnip, sweetcorn; and some nuts: almonds, peanuts, walnuts.
Some foods that seem to help thyroid function: beef, full fat dairy and green leafy veg
Some things that you could take that might help: vitamin D, magnesium, vitamin B12, selenium

I don't really know how reliable this list is but I will try to find out.

As far as other thing that can help remember the importance of having enough protein. If you are experiencing this famine reaction, really boost your protein intake for a while to see if it will help.

Good luck all
x

@Fancyacuppa, I am no expert at all but based on my reading of the Don't go hungry books, it sounds like you are having a famine reaction and should consider taking a "weight loss holiday". Do reread the books on this issue! You will know when you are ready to start your weight loss program again.

And as for eating far more than you need, Amanda's advice is to fill up on vegetables and fruit as much as possible, and then use protein and fats to satisfy you. Serve yourself a reasonable portion of food, but if you are still hungry 20 minutes later, eat some more. And if you really want some fun food (as she calls it) then savour it and enjoy it!

And @wildmissus - perhaps look thru the books again to see what strategies are suggested for your situation. As you say, when stressed it can be very hard to lose weight. I wonder if you also should take a break from fasting and any sort of dieting and use that time to see if you can get back in touch with your body's food needs???

Both of you, best wishes and good luck for finding a solution!

Edit: another of Amanda's theories is that we overeat when we are lacking nutrients, which is why she recommends eating a wide range of whole foods and not excluding any food group unless there are medical (or ethical?) reasons for doing so.

[Tracieknits]

Thanks @Carorees, but my thyroid isn't normal. I took radioactive iodine in January in order to ablate my thyroid, and this is the process of it dying off. We won't know until about July where it will even out, but going up then down was to be expected. And oh my but you basically have a list of my favorite vegetables (only missing broccoli and onions). I also love nuts. I eat beef at least once a week and I try to only consume full fat dairy (although smaller portions). I eat lots of leafy green veg, and I take vitamin D. I'm a little loathe to cut out any non-starchy veggies, so I may leave the veggies be.

And you never have to tell me twice not to go very low carb I was low carb for probably 20 hours yesterday, but then a serving of pasta with about a serving and a half of cannelini beans fixed that.

[carorees]

@tracieknits, did I read that onions were also on the avoid list but I decided not to list them because, honestly, how can you cook without onions?! My remarks weren't especially directed at you but for anyone who is struggling because there is a chance that many (most?) will have some suppression of thyroid function (due to T4 to T3 conversion tending to result in higher RT3 occurring with weight loss and low calorie intake I believe) and so anything we can do to help things out is a good thing.

I should also have mentioned, not over-exercising which can also suppress thyroid function and trying to eat during daylight hours as that seems to help also.