The FastDay Forum

Thank you for asking Caroline, now I look I see I got it a bit wrong:

Calcium Carbonate 1020mg providing 400mg of elemental calcium. (50% RDA), Magnesium Oxide 343 mg providing 200mg of elemental magnesium (66% RDA), Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide.

So what I am taking is 200mg elemental magnesium, 400mg elemental calcium, not the other way round as I had thought

Thanks, dominic.

I've normally included one or two small servings of fish per week in my otherwise veg diet and am now upping the amount a bit. It may be that I'm deficient in taurine. I don't suppose it would hurt try supplementing. I'll probably include a bottle of taurine in my next vitamin order . . . and maybe some 5-HTP, depending on what further research discloses.

If and when I have something to report, I'll post the results.

I tried an eyemask a few weeks ago without much success. It seems that my entire body, not just my eyes, reacts to the early daylight, or maybe it's tuned into sunrise and would awaken even if in a pitch-black room.

Caroline and dominic, the question of the amount of magnesium to take is really confounding, not only for the reasons you suggested but because the different forms seem to be absorbed differently, with variations from one person to the next.

I've been taking a combination of magnesium citrate in capsule form (one or two caps a day @ 165 mg each), mag citrate in powder form (another 165 mg), and about a teaspoon of liquid mag chloride (133 mg). That adds up to about 500-600 mg/day. I also apply a bit of the liquid externally before bedtime. I've been thinking about increasing the dosage and maybe now would be a good time.

As my supply of Mg products gets depleted, I'll look into magnesium taurate, which I think is harder to find and pricier than most of the other forms.

Hmm, this 1990 study suggested that magnesium citrate was much better absorbed and bioavailable than magnesium oxide:

The increment in urinary magnesium following magnesium citrate load (25 mmol) was significantly higher than that obtained from magnesium oxide load (during 4 hours post-load, 0.22 vs 0.006 mg/mg creatinine, p less than 0.05; during second 2 hours post-load, 0.035 vs 0.008 mg/mg creatinine, p less than 0.05).

Sounds as if any effect I have been getting from my magnesium may have been placebo only!

Reading around now, there are some other magnesium salts which may have better absorption than citrate such as malate, aspartate, taurinate and orotate. Some discussion (and links to studies) here and here.

Magnesium oxide probably came out the other exit, it's a lot less soluble than some other salts.

Magnesium oxide probably came out the other exit, it's a lot less soluble than some other salts.

Yes that's what I was thinking. But there is some research pointing the other way here (full paper here) - discussed here.

Anyway, I am still taking my Calcium carbonate / Magnesium oxide pill in the evening and still sleeping well, so will keep going for now, although after reading this I will try to remember to take it with food...

[carorees]

So, you just have to take more if you take magnesium oxide...

Approximately 500 mg of Mg oxide may be equal to 350 mg Mg citrate

which makes perfect sense!

Did you get an immediate effect on your insomnia dominic? I have noticed an improvement but I'm not yet sleeping through the night. I'm taking 2 x 500mg of magnesium citrate (=160mg elemental magnesium) so I'm thinking of increasing the dose. Also, I wondered whether taking it with the evening meal allowed enough time for the magnesium to be absorbed and have an effect. Thoughts?

Magnesium oxide probably came out the other exit, it's a lot less soluble than some other salts.

Yes that's what I was thinking. But there is some research pointing the other way here (full paper here) - discussed here

They seemed to overdose the oxide..

Healthy volunteers received either magnesium oxide tablets (520 mg/day of elemental magnesium) or magnesium citrate tablets (295.8 mg/day of elemental magnesium)

relative to citrate, but not say why ??

So, you just have to take more if you take magnesium oxide

Apparently. If this 350:500 ratio is right then my dose of 200mg magnesium elemental via magnesium oxide is a little less than your 160mg via magnesium citrate Caroline.

They seemed to overdose the oxide... relative to citrate, but not say why ??

I agree it is strange, perhaps they had a reason for picking this ratio in the first place, it seemed to work uncannily well. Also note that although they claim no conflicts of interest, the full paper is from the website of the Israeli company that makes the oxide pills used in the study!

Did you get an immediate effect on your insomnia dominic? I have noticed an improvement but I'm not yet sleeping through the night. I'm taking 2 x 500mg of magnesium citrate (=160mg elemental magnesium) so I'm thinking of increasing the dose. Also, I wondered whether taking it with the evening meal allowed enough time for the magnesium to be absorbed and have an effect. Thoughts?

I seemed to get an immediate effect, but I don't always sleep badly - so having slept well when I have taken magnesium doesn't prove anything, even to me.

I have always taken the tablet in the evening, the first couple of times I took it before or just after my evening meal. I noticed I was still waking a bit early though feeling very rested and dopey, so I started taking it later in the evening, and I have slept through. Once I took it just before bed and thought I was more buzzy at bedtime, but I slept through okay (in any case I don't have a problem going to sleep, it's the waking that is my downfall).

[carorees]

Yes, its the waking that's my problem too...at its worst, every 2 hours during the night (including taking quite a while to get back to sleep each time). Since taking the magnesium I've managed to get up to 5 hours in one stretch! And also to go back to sleep quite easily when I do wake. Hoping to get a 7 hour stretch routinely as I really need to get the BP down and I think the poor sleep is really not helping! I'll keep to taking the Mg with my evening meal in the light of your experience!

Yes, its the waking that's my problem too...at its worst, every 2 hours during the night (including taking quite a while to get back to sleep each time). Since taking the magnesium I've managed to get up to 5 hours in one stretch! And also to go back to sleep quite easily when I do wake.

That was my experience, too. As I understand it, the 2-hour cycle business is common among women of - ahem - our age and relates to hormones. Since starting to take magnesium, I've done better - I normally awaken two hours after first falling asleep and return to sleep fairly quickly and usually remain asleep for five more hours.

Lately, though, with the change of season, my sleep has been thin, restless and broken, to put it mildly. In light of this discussion I'm doubling my dinnertime dose of mg citrate (capsules) today and at bedtime will take my usual 1 tsp of mg citrate powder laced with half a tsp of mg chloride liquid.

Here's to a good night's sleep for all of us.

[carorees]

The magnesium effect seems to have reduced the last few nights . I've now ordered some magnesium oil to see if the transdermal route is more effective ( fingers crossed).

Doubling my dinnertime dose of magnesium citrate didn't seem to help. Then, three nights ago I increased the amount of magnesium "oil" (magnesium chloride liquid, which I mix 50-50 with water) I apply topically before bed. In addition to rubbing it into the back of my neck, which is what I had been doing, I massaged it into the backs of my legs, which is where most of my muscle cramps occur. Each of those nights I awakened once after a few hours but soon went back to sleep, slept soundly and awakened feeling well rested. Of course I'll be repeating the process tonight.

Three nights isn't much to go on and I'm just a sample of one, but I think you have reason to be optimistic, Caroline.

The taurine I ordered arrived today and I'll take 1 g tonight along with magnesium citrate (oral) and magnesium chloride (both oral and topical). . . . I hope.

Is this of interest to anyone?

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Magnes ... fessional/

Yep; magnesium and zinc are the only supplements I take. They are the only ones I am not confident I get enough of.