The FastDay Forum

I wonder if you clever peeps could answer a question for me? I've often seen people on the boards recommend a low carb/high protein diet. I'm confused about this though as in the Horizon programme Dr M said diets with high protein are partly responsible for high IGF levels?

You are correct that we should be eating no more than 0.8 grams of protein per kg of body weight. That's not usually an issue on a fast day, when it is helpful to have a relatively high proportion of protein, which is filling and the body cannot store. Having low carbs on a fast day is also helpful, avoiding insulin spikes and potential cravings. But on normal days we should be aiming for a lower proportion of protein. Dr Mosley was advised that we should be trying to eat more of our protein from plant sources, rather than animal based protein - I think this was for longevity. So in the long run, tending towards more pulses, nuts and other veg with plenty of complex whole carbs would seem to be the way to go.

[Tracieknits]

Yes I agree with Belinda! Very well said

Low carb is a very popular diet plan with some people, but it's not the focus of these boards or this diet. That's just a few excited people sharing about something they have a passion about.

Ditto with previous 2 posts. I reckon this is the way my 5:2 has honed in after 6 weeks. Seems the way to go for weight loss AND health improvements.

Thankyou, that's a lot clearer. I think I have too much protein on a non fast day. It's more than the recommended amount anyway.

I'm reading with interest. Thanks.

Not sure if this is too OT, but carorees you mentioned that fast day protein for women on average should be around 50g. What should it be for a non fast day?

[carorees]

Same amount on non-fast days for most people but of course there is no problem meeting that target when eating normally.

However, if you are an athlete or do a lot of exercise you will need more due to having a higher muscle mass and greater need for body repair. Suggested amounts vary between 1.6 g/kg and 1.8 g/kg but it is far from clear how accurate these assessments are.

Same amount on non-fast days for most people but of course there is no problem meeting that target when eating normally.

However, if you are an athlete or do a lot of exercise you will need more due to having a higher muscle mass and greater need for body repair. Suggested amounts vary between 1.6 g/kg and 1.8 g/kg but it is far from clear how accurate these assessments are.

When I first went low carb I made the mistake of too much protein and I was struggling to lose. The old low carb diets were high protein which I think is partly why they got a bad rep for annoying the kidneys. If you eat excess protein your body will convert it to glucose rather than go over to fat burning and so you will come out of ketosis.

To work out roughly what you need you take the weight that would be your ideal, healthy weight (be realistic!)in kilos and multiply that by 0.8 to get the grams you need per day. As Caroline says, a reasonable sized chicken breast and make up the rest of your calories with leafy veg and a bit of fat.

There seems to be a whole new money making opportunity being exploited on the back of the 5:2 with lots of people jumping on the bandwagon to supply ready meals and supplements.

Thanks Miffy and carorees. Based on that calculation! i need around 44 grams.So now we have sort of gone on a tangent, i would like to ask another question.

I've seen this mentioned before but found it hard to convert into the idea of real food ( that's why the chicken breast helped ) What is the division of the rest of the food groups and what would that mean approximately?

If this isn't the right place to ask, let me know and I'll start a new thread.

Thanks

[carorees]

Thanks Miffy and carorees. Based on that calculation! i need around 44 grams.So now we have sort of gone on a tangent, i would like to ask another question.

I've seen this mentioned before but found it hard to convert into the idea of real food ( that's why the chicken breast helped ) What is the division of the rest of the food groups and what would that mean approximately?

If this isn't the right place to ask, let me know and I'll start a new thread.

Thanks

In my opinion, we should be limiting carbs to 100-150g per day (less if you're carb sensitive, diabetic or prediabetic) which mean the rest of your calories come from fat.

150g of carbs is 600cal, 50g protein is 200cal, so that's around 800cal from fat in my case or 80g. So in terms of percentage energy I'm aiming for approx 37:12:51 from carbs, protein and fat respectively.

There's a link to a webpage with examples of what 50g of carbs looks like somewhere on the forum..I'll try to track it down!

[carorees]

Here's the list of foods containing 50g carbs:

Food Portions Providing 50 g of Carbohydrate

CEREAL
Wheat biscuit cereal (e.g. Weet Bix) 60g (5 biscuits)
'Light' breakfast cereal (e.g. Cornflakes) 60 g (2 cups)
'Muesli' flake breakfast cereal 65 g (1-1.5 cups)
Toasted muesli 90 g (1 cup)
Porridge - made with milk 350 g (1.3 cups)
Porridge - made with water 550 g (2.5 cups)
Rolled oats 90 g (1 cup)
Bread 100 g (4 slices white or 3 thick wholegrain)
Bread rolls 110 g (1 large or 2 medium)
Pita and lebanese bread 100 g (2 pita)
Chapati 150 g (2.5)
English muffin 120 g (2 full muffins)
Crumpet 2.5
Muesli bar 2.5
Rice cakes 6 thick or 10 thin
Crispbreads and dry biscuits 6 large or 15 small
Fruit filled biscuits 5
Plain sweet biscuits 8-10
Cream filled/chocolate biscuits 6
Cakestyle muffin 115 g (1 large or 2 medium)
Pancakes 150 g (2 medium)
Scones 125 g (3 medium)
Iced fruit bun 105 g (1.5)
Croissant 149 g (1.5 large or 2 medium)
Rice, boiled 180g (1 cup)
Pasta or noodles, boiled 200 g (1.3 cups)
Canned spaghetti 440 g (large can)
FRUIT
Fruit crumble 1 cup
Fruit packed in heavy syrup 280 g (1.3 cups)
Fruit stewed/canned in light syrup 520 g (2 cups)
Fresh fruit salad 500 g (2.5 cups)
Bananas 2 medium-large
Large fruit (mango, pear, grapefruit etc.) 2-3
Medium fruit (orange, apple etc.) 3-4
Small fruit (nectarine, apricot etc.) 12
Grapes 350 g (2 cups)
Melon 1,000 g (6 cups)
Strawberries 1,800 g (12 cups)
Sultanas and raisins 70 g (4 Tbsp)
Dried apricots 115 g (22 halves)
VEGETABLES
Potatoes 350 g (1 very large or 3 medium)
Sweet potato 350 g (2.5 cups)
Corn 300 g (1.2 cups creamed corn or 2 cobs)
Green Beans 1,800 g (14 cups)
Baked beans 440 g (1 large can)
Lentils 400 g (2 cups)
Soy beans and kidney beans 400 g (2 cups)
Tomato puree 1 litre (4 cups)
Pumpkin and peas 700 g (5 cups)
DAIRY PRODUCTS
Milk 1 litre
Flavoured milk 560 ml
Custard 300 g (1.3 cup or half 600 g carton)
'Diet' yoghurt and natural yoghurt 800 g (4 individual tubs)
Flavoured non-fat yoghurt 350 g (2 individual tubs)
Icecream 250 g (10 Tbsp)
Fromage frais 400 g (2 tubs)
Rice pudding/creamed rice 300 g (1.5 cups)
SUGARS and CONFECTIONERY
Sugar 50 g
Jam 3 Tbsp
Syrups 4 Tbsp
Honey 3 Tbsp
Chocolate 80 g
Mars Bar and other 50-60 g bars 1.5 bars
Jubes and jelly babies 60 g
MIXED DISHES
Pizza 200 g (medium -1/4 thick or 1/3 thin)
Hamburgers 1.3 Big Macs
Lasagne 400 g serve
Fried rice 200 g (1.3 cups)
DRINKS
Fruit juice - unsweetened 600 ml
Fruit juice - sweetened 500 ml
Cordial 800 ml
Soft drinks and flavored mineral water 500 ml
Fruit smoothie 250-300 ml
SPORTS FOODS
Sports drink 700 ml
Carbohydrate loader supplement 250 ml
Liquid meal supplement 250-300 ml
Sports bar 1-1.5 bars
Sports gels 2 sachets
Glucose polymer powder 60 g

Thank you so much. I've copied both of those posts so I can pour over them later.

So now I've had the protein and carb examples, would it be too cheeky to ask how you make up the fat part of your diet? 800 calories from fat seems a lot to me. Can you please give me a few examples.

Thank you Caroline-that has cheered mme up as I thought I ate a lot of carbs- but a quick calculation tells me I probably eat around the 150 level.

@Umleila, it's actually surprising how easy it is to eat that much fat (well, for me anyway!! a teaspoonful of any oil or butter is approx. 40cals. so if you pour a good glug of olive oil over your salad that's already 120-150, a stirfry cooked in 2 tablespoons of coconut oil is 240 for the fat, plus of course if you eat eggs, meat,poultry, fish or nuts and seeds they all have fat. How about the fat in your cream, yogurt and if you eat any processed food it's usually got plenty of fat. One bulletproof coffee is about 150 cals if you use a generous tablespoonful - so not as hard a you might think!

[carorees]

Generally there's no point worrying too much about the fat, just the carbs and the protein. If you control the carbs and protein then either you'll make up the extra calories you need in fat or you'll lose weight!