The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

Ha ha, not sure that really counts as breaking the fast! I would guess that the first substantial food would be relevant in terms of affecting the gut flora...but who knows!

Ah, OK! Although many times my breaky is a coffee...

Perhaps I should grab some of those probiotics next time I hit the supermarket and see how they agree with me...

Never tried growing my own kefir, but our local Polish shop sells it, I go through about a bottle a week, about 70ml a day. I do tend to mix my kefir with a spoonful of raspberry jam to make it sweeter, which is probably cheating and defeating the purpose. Might try mixing kefir with banana, I hear they like banana with all its tasty oligosaccharides.

The big difference between it and probiotic yoghurt is range of microorganisms in kefir. Commercial yoghurts advertise billions of 1 variety of bug, while kefir is whole ecosystem, not just bacteria, friendly yeasts too.

Probiotic activity of mixed cultures of kefir's lactobacilli and non-lactose fermenting yeasts
Kefir is a product manufactured by starter culture prepared from kefir grains. The grains were kept in leather bags or horseback, only added milk. In the warm climate fermentation began. Kefir grains are very complex, and as they vary from region to region, from dairy to dairy, no thorough and unambiguous identification of its components are possible. However studies show that all kefir grains consist of lactic acid bacteria and lactose fermenting and non-lactose fermenting yeasts, growing in a strong relationship (Farnworth,2005).

1. Bacteria found in kefir grains and kefir:
Lactobacillus kefir
Lactobacillus delbrueckii
Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Lactobacillus kefirgranum
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus parakefir
Lactobacilli paracasei
Lactobacillus brevis
Lactobacillus fructivorans
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus hilgardii
Lactobacillus helveticus
Lactobacillus fermentum
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus viridescens
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
Streptococcus thermophilus
Enterococcus durans
Leuconostoc sp
Leuconostoc mesenteroides
Acetobacter sp
Acetobacter pasteurianus
Acetobacter aceti
Bacillus sp. r Micrococcus sp. r
Bacillus subtilis g Escherichia coli r

2. Yeasts found in kefir grains and kefir:
Kluyveromyces marxianus
Saccharomyces sp.
Saccharomyces cerevisiae
Saccharomycesunisporus
Saccharomyces exiguus
Saccharomyces turicensis
Saccharomyces delbrueckii
Saccharomyces dairensis
Torulaspora delbrueckii
Brettanomyces anomalus
Issatchenkia occidentalis
Candida friedrichii
Candida pseudotropicalis
Candida tenuis
Candida inconspicua
Candida maris
Candida lambica
Candida tannotelerans
Candida valida
Candida kefyr
Candida holmii
Pichia fermentans

The Mary Jones article mentions bacteria in your intestine that produce endotoxins. You get the same thing with meningitis bacteria in your blood stream, when the bacteria die, killed by antibiotics or your immune system, they release the endotoxins which cause the damage. Start off with too much kefir and your new friends will start massacring all the nasties living in your intestine releasing their endotoxins, which you system will want to get rid of fairly rapidly. You want a gentle colonisation, where your unwelcome residents are slowly squeezed out. Ease yourself onto it. And if it upsets you system, cut back the amount you are taking for a while.

[carorees]

I think I might buy some more kefir grains now I've read this thread! I did try to get some fil culture but it didn't grow. The kefir grains are much easier to cultivate than yoghurt as they seem to resist invasion by other micro-organisms floating around your kitchen. I do make my own yoghurt but I have to start a new culture fairly often as after a while some other bug gets in there and makes it taste horrible, this never seems to happen with kefir. The problem was that the rest of the family were not so keen on the kefir as they found it too sour.

True, it is very sour. My mum tried it once but she couldn't drink it either.

I'm quite intrigued by the kefir and had a look at the website you suggested Caroline. Is it easy to do? Does it make a mess or a smell? Is it the milk one or the water one that is best? I see they also sell the fil mjolk culture that you mentioned...

I have already ordered some and am looking forward to tasting it - hope it turns out ok. When I lived in Jordan we used to eat jameed, which is fermented dried yogurt which looks like balls of light grey stone. I know that sound unappetising to say the least, but you soak it and use it in the national dish of Jordan (mansaf) and it is delicious (maybe an acquired taste).

[carorees]

I'm quite intrigued by the kefir and had a look at the website you suggested Caroline. Is it easy to do? Does it make a mess or a smell? Is it the milk one or the water one that is best? I see they also sell the fil mjolk culture that you mentioned...

Very easy to do, you add some milk to the grains (they look like tiny cauliflowers) and leave them at room temperature to ferment the milk. That takes about 24 hours, just check it for thickness and stop when it's thick enough (but it won't get as thick as standard yoghurt...more like the pouring yoghurt or filmjölk). Then you strain off the fermented milk (preferably with a plastic strainer) and add fresh milk to the grains. You can keep the culture in the fridge once it's got going and you get a less sour product but it takes longer...3-4 days. Not messy or smelly. The grains gradually grow, doubling every couple of weeks if you culture at room temp. When your grains get too big you can just throw some away.

I've never tried water kefir as I wanted something more like yoghurt and have no dairy allergy. I did try the fil culture but it died on me!

Nothing ventured, nothing gained... I've ordered some, thanks for the tip!

It's such fun to watch the kefir thingy growing.

In the photo I have to say it looks a bit like something from my childhood Dr Who. Might not help me sleep...

It does! I used to love watching it!!! I think that my mum kept it, even if she didn't drink it, because of my fascination...

An excellent article - very readable as well as very informative. Thank you for sharing, tompan.

And a superb opportunity for the slogan writers:
"Wholegrains! Good for you, good for your Faecalibacterium prausnitzii"

I'm quite intrigued by the kefir and had a look at the website you suggested Caroline. Is it easy to do? Does it make a mess or a smell? Is it the milk one or the water one that is best? I see they also sell the fil mjolk culture that you mentioned...

Very easy to do, you add some milk to the grains (they look like tiny cauliflowers) and leave them at room temperature to ferment the milk. That takes about 24 hours, just check it for thickness and stop when it's thick enough (but it won't get as thick as standard yoghurt...more like the pouring yoghurt or filmjölk). Then you strain off the fermented milk (preferably with a plastic strainer) and add fresh milk to the grains. You can keep the culture in the fridge once it's got going and you get a less sour product but it takes longer...3-4 days. Not messy or smelly. The grains gradually grow, doubling every couple of weeks if you culture at room temp. When your grains get too big you can just throw some away.

I've never tried water kefir as I wanted something more like yoghurt and have no dairy allergy. I did try the fil culture but it died on me!

You're amazing...never thought to try to cultivate my own fil. I don't think I have the patience to go to this trouble, unfortunately. Another alternative to milk products are pickles which are said to have similar effects: kimchi, sauerkraut, pickled veggies (or whatever mjölksyrad is in English) and miso.

From what I can figure out from wiki and google translate, mjölksyra is Swedish for lactic acid. Mjölksyrad sound like the past participle, lactic-acid-ed or maybe lacto-fermented, with (naturally occurring?) lactobacilli to produce lactic acid preserved pickle.

I like kimchi, and could probably source it from Koreans I know who live in the area. Not sure the rest of the family would forgive me though, the high garlic content is particularly aromatic.

Asda and Tesco sell jars of sauerkraut in their Polish food sections but I don't know if they are live or have the been pasteurised. Anyone know how to source live sauerkraut? Do the bacteria differ much from kefir bugs and do they complement each other?