The FastDay Forum

It seems quite a few people are doing variations of 5:2 with liquid fasting - everything from soup/ juice/ coffee down to zero cal water fasts. I realise it's early days, but if this trend keeps up, I would be really interested to see if liquid calories vs zero calories, and indeed liquid fasting vs normal 5:2, makes any/ much difference.

Something for a future questionnaire/ monthly weigh in analysis?

A look at at my own stats over 15 weeks shows I lost as much week on week when I had coffees with milk and sugar as I did water fasting. A lot of people might be put off water fasting as it does seem quite extreme, whereas juice fasting (soup, fruit juice etc) might be just as good and more sustainable for many.

It seems there are 3 categories here - 5:2 with food (0-600cals); 5:2 with liquid (0-?cals); and 5:2 with water (0cals). I realise people also do 4:3 and ADF but that's too complicated for my tiny mind to imagine comparing. It would be interesting to assess, based on an objective comparison of a decent sample size across the 3 categories, outcomes re weight loss, changes in non fast day eating and other benefits.

Now to inject caution into my relentless optimism about water fasting - should we be nervous about promoting water/ liquid fasting? I often have this in mind when posting here. Personally, I have no fears about it as I have only experienced positive benefits. However, a lack of evidence is of course not proof and I realise I've taken 5:2 and mutated it. It might not work for everyone and I suppose could have dire consequences for some, like teenagers. And of course the forum is based on Michael Mosley's method which is normal 5:2, so should we liquid fasters just be glad those following the method 'properly' tolerate us at all?! Dunno. Comments welcome!

I'm interested to know more about this too. I have been doing 500 cal 36hour fasts with the first 24hrs on water only. Since the TDEE calculator has been put on the site it's saying I should only be doing 400cal on fast days.

As it is I am finding the fasting easier and easier and am considering trying a water only fast tomorrow. I hate fiddling around trying to get my calories right on a fast day (I don't calorie count at all on feast days) and bringing them down to around 400 feels like more hassle. Maybe it's just easier to not think about food at all on fast days. I just worry about negative side effects!

Shannonaleese, I also don't count on non fast days. My feeling is that liquid fasting (regardless of calories) results in the same weight loss because it controls non fast day eating better, so liquid fasters may eat less overall from an early stage. But that's based on anecdotal feedback across the forum rather than anything objective.

Even normal 5:2 is unproven in relation to any long term side effects so we are all guinea pigs in a way! Main thing is to listen carefully to your own body - and GP if there are known medical conditions.

Fortunately I am a fit and healthy (as far as I know) 25yo so doubt I will do myself any damage. I'll just listen to my body and if I have to fall back on a little snack at dinner time I will but I think I can do it!

I have been thinking about liquid/water fasting too. Like you Shannonaleece I have been only having an evening meal on my fast days and it doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to wait until the following morning to break my fast. My weight loss has been fairly steady so far but I would be interested to see if going to 0 calories makes any difference, weight-wise and how one feels. Then of course there's the question whether to do 0 calories on only one of the two weekly fasting days or both...

I agree Redhead, an interesting topic!

[carorees]

Maybe something we could look at in future. The effectiveness of no cal/almost no cal fasts will depend on how your body responds to fasting. If you suffer a slowing of thyroid function early in the process (24 hours) it may backfire, if not it is likely to give slightly better weight loss. Not huge though as you are only dropping another 1000 cals over standard 5:2 so that should result in only about a quarter to a third of a pound of fat extra lost per week.

Really interesting thread redhead - I'm happy to be a guineapig too. Who knows what information/results may come out of all this at some stage in the future - in the meanwhile we're all benefitting from being a healthy weight and all that comes with it.

I liquid fasted every Monday from the age of 55 to 60' so I could spread the 2000 Cals over the three days of the weekend . It worked I felt great and had a stable weight. When I retired I worried that it might not be doing my health any good so stopped it. Since then I have Not been the same weight for two weeks running and have been on Dukan diet and WW and low GL. When I at last found out about Eat fast and live longer at the end of March this year I had no qualms about starting it next day. I have now lost 9lbs of the 13lbs I needed to loose. So far I have only done one 36hour liquid day but am planning to use that as maintenance when I Loose my final 4 Lb. I suppose what I am trying to say is that over 5 years I was very healthy and came to no harm from fasting. I feel I may have done myself more harm yoyo dieting in the last 6 years.

I'd be happy to supply weightloss (and experiential) data too as I do one 36 hour zero calorie fast a week

I too started out with a zero calorie 24 hour fast and have found skipping the 500 cal meal easy so far. I thought Dr M only suggested the 500 cals because he thought that would be sustainable for the majority? As I'm obviously not the "majority" in this case, I've been happy to forgo the calories and make my fast days "truly fasting" days.

Nessie, that's interesting to hear your experience and reassuring that someone with a decent length of experience had had no dire effects.

Carorees, liquid fasting shouldn't make much difference to weight loss because as you point out, at most it's only 1,000 cals less, but it does seem to make a big difference for some and I have the feeling it's due to the liquid element rather than the calories. Suppose it would need a comparison with someone doing 5:2 with very low food cals to assess properly. But there seems to be evidence - referenced in another thread inc an early Dr Mosley prog on weight loss - that liquid is better than solid food for weight loss even when the calories are the same. And it doesn't trip the hunger switch. It may all be anecdotal/ physiological/ my bias in favouring water fasting personally though.

A great topic.

I can't hold a candle to the formidable Nessie. I'm only into my seventh month of once-a-week zero-calorie fasts of 32 to 42 hours, but FWIW here's my experience.

Health. No issues as far as I can tell. I feel better in every respect. Haven't yet had any blood work done after starting this regimen, but I've had BP taken on several occasions, all of them just after racing to clinics for non-serious matters (oral surgery and the like). In each case the reading was at the low end of normal.

Weight. Initially I lost weight. Because I was (am) underweight, I then started eating more on the other days to get back to starting weight (currently one or two pounds under that). This has been confounding. Previously I hadn't weighed myself for 10 or 20 years and hadn't been counting calories. I simply went by how I felt, how my clothes fit. If I had a blow-out meal or had been undereating, I automatically, naturally compensated for a few days without calculating anything. The need to add more calories has been very disorienting. Instead of relying on instinct, I've been thinking and analyzing, and the effort has been akin to walking while thinking about the walking the process. A lot of stumbles. I've decided that after today's zero calories I'll drop the thinking part and just listen to my body and see how that goes. More information would be most welcome.

I'm interested in learning more about liquid fasting. I wonder whether the addition of a few liquid calories like miso soup would help with the profound cold I've experienced on winter fast days without diminishing the benefits. And now, with the onset of warmer weather, I'll be hauling out my juicer shortly and am thinking about trying a several-day juice fast.

The only liquid I'm having is water, and a few green teas (no milk/sweetener etc, just weak green tea, which I'm assuming would be very low cal). I've found though that I've been eating more on my non fast days, not less. I'm going to keep going with it though (because I find it easier not switching on my hunger switch in the evening) so maybe my eating will sort itself out again, and I'll go back to eating less on non fast days.

I didn't make it on all water today. But it was purely psychological. I just felt absolutely miserable without the prospect of a nice warm meal at the end of the day. So in the end I told myself I could have soup and some bread at the end of the day, instantly my mood perked right up!

When I ate my soup I wasn't even hungry but psychologically I definitely needed it and I'm OK with that. I have learned I am definitely not made of the stoic stuff needed for a full water fast!

Anyway I'm doing 4:3 and my weight loss has been quite quick (I'm just paranoid that the last 1.4kg will take months) so I'm not too worried about not being able to hack the water fasts!

Goodness this place really is teeming with fascinating experiences! I suppose my interest in some controlled research is the fact that there appears to be a great diversity of experience. It's hard to make sense of it all just from reading the forum threads.

Carorees, just rereading your reply and thinking about this thyroid thing again. Can anyone suffer from a short term thyroid slow down even if there is no thyroid problem normally? A lot of people are liquid/ water fasting for 24 hours because they have their 500 cals in one evening meal. Is there anyway to tell if there's a short term thyroid problem - other than GP testing and noticeably lower weight loss?

You could take your temperature as low temperature can indicate a thyroid problem - called the Barnes Temperature test.