The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

Hmm, I often think that if you are trying to give up some foodstuff, whether it be milk, wheat, meat or whatever, it is better to avoid substitutes made with ingredients that are far from natural (such as in the ingredients list for Koko) and just change your way of eating to omit anything that would normally contain the said ingredient. I feel that cows milk is likely to be less harmful than a blend of calcium phosphate, emulsifier, sucrose ester etc...

Couldn't agree more, for example if it's butter you want, don't substitute with "I can't believe it's still legal/killed you yet" !!

You might want to look at organic almond milk. Very good with oats and a dusting of maple sugar.

I was going to ask what almond milk is like in coffee. I have a raised IGF-1 and had a pituitary MRI on valentines day at 7pm!! because they thought a pituitary tumour might be the cause of my blood results.
Anyway they couldn't see a tumour and I was reading the 5:2 book that week as well, hence starting as soon as I finished it lol
I really dislike black coffee and would like to cut out milk but don't like soy either, so a verdict anyone?
I cannot give up fat free natural yoghurt though, have to have it with my curry

I can't comment yet about almond milk, but I might try it!

Regarding soya milk, which I mentioned above as being connected with raised IGF-1, googling does give rather contradictory information. Lots of wild and sometimes hysterical claims about the evils of soya (usually connected with general rants against capitalism, agribusiness and why did we leave the caves in the first place...)

A 2005 trial reported in the British Journal of Nutrition here in which the test group consumed 5-22g of soya twice daily (including soya milk) concluded: 'Adding soya foods to the diet of premenopausal women does not appear to lower serum levels of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3; if anything, the greater protein intake from soya may lead to a small increase in IGF-1 serum levels.'

So soya milk probably doesn't really affect IGF-1 except through its high protein content. That leaves the issue of phytoestrogens, considered by some as increasing cancer risk for women. There is some recently-updated advice from breastcancer.org here which doesn't seem to think this is really a concern although it notes that 'we need more quality studies and randomized controlled trials looking at its safety and efficacy'.

BTW a recent large-scale trial concluded that eating soy products did not reduce menopausal symptoms, something for which they are often recommended.

I was going to ask what almond milk is like in coffee. I have a raised IGF-1 and had a pituitary MRI on valentines day at 7pm!! because they thought a pituitary tumour might be the cause of my blood results.
Anyway they couldn't see a tumour and I was reading the 5:2 book that week as well, hence starting as soon as I finished it lol
I really dislike black coffee and would like to cut out milk but don't like soy either, so a verdict anyone?
I cannot give up fat free natural yoghurt though, have to have it with my curry

That must have been really scary for you made109 - hope things have settled down now?

I don't like black coffee either, nor do I like cow's milk or soya, but I do like almond milk in my coffee and I make my own. Here's a link to a recipe:
http://vegetarian.about.com/od/rawfoods ... ndmilk.htm. It sounds a bit of a faff but it isn't and it's lovely in coffee, shakes, on cereal (which I no longer eat!) - don't know about regular tea as I don't drink it.

Haven't tried commercially produced almond milk because of the additives it contains and so far haven't found any additive free, which I why I make my own. It keeps well in the fridge and last about 5 days. Worth a try?

Oooh fabulous thank you

I was more worried about the MRI than the results lol. I am not particularly claustrophobic but when I had and MRI on my back last year I found myself hyperventilating after a while, so I was worried about how I would react having a brain scan done because they put a thing over your face as well for marking! Anyway some diazepam fixed it & all is fine.
Shame I won't get another IGF-1 test to see if it has come down after doing 5:2 for a while

Have been enjoying organic Goji berries--touted as a superfood here in Calif--and read a blurb about them. Does anyone know if the desirable human growth hormone (cited below) here is the same as the IGF-1 that IF is said to help diminish?

In addition to being a top longevity food, gojis are thought to be the most nutritionally rich fruit on Earth. Gojis contain more iron than spinach, more beta carotene than carrots, and more protein than whole wheat (13%). Gojis are packed with 18 amino acids, eight of which are the essential amino acids, including isoleucine and tryptophan. Plus goji berries are one of the highest antioxidant containing fruits in the world, typically containing 2-4 times the amount found in blueberries.

Goji berries are also an excellent source of minerals, such as zinc, iron, copper, calcium and phosphorous, as well as vitamins B1, B2, B6 and E. Gojis contain key nutrients that promote healthy vision, and have been recommended for thousands of years in Chinese medicine to improve eyesight.

One of the most fascinating aspects of goji berries is their ability to help the body produce Human Growth Hormone (HGH). The production of HGH is considered by many to be our body's own, internal Fountain of Youth, and decreasing levels of HGH have been linked to accelerated aging. For example, a seventy-year-old produces only one-tenth of the amount of HGH as a twenty-year-old.
While fortifying the immune system and helping to stimulate the body to produce more natural Human Growth Hormone, studies with elderly people have shown that these powerful berries can decrease the signs of aging, increase the function of T cells and white cell interleukin-2 while uplifting mood, increasing optimism, improving appetite and encouraging better sleep patterns.

Hi tompan

As I understand it, HGH is the growth hormone that triggers the production of IGF-1, they are not the same thing. So I would think it is a plausible concomitant of their vaunted 'eternal youth' property that they might be carcinogenic.

Also when I had them they were tasteless and yuk! Dried goji berries turn up in a lot of Graze boxes (sorry this won't mean anything to you but might do to others in UK) - after I had some I went through my online selections and binned any boxes that contained the nasty little blighters.

Maybe they are nicer when fresh?

It's all Greek to me!

[carorees]

HGH (or more normally just called GH) and IGF1 are completely different. You can get increases in GH without increases in IGF1 though they are often in tandem. GH as well as promoting body growth also acts to limit gluconeogenesis (the production of glucose from protein) and so limits loss of muscle during fasting.

I doubt very much that goji berries really increase GH! A quick look on PubMed does not reveal any studies supporting this but there are several reports of allergy (some severe) and possible interactions with prescription drugs. Most of the papers are in dodgy journals like journal of complementary medicine.

I'm interested that so many foods are touted as being good for you because they contain antioxidants and yet the evidence for antioxidants being beneficial is poor. Indeed a large study in which people were given antioxidant supplements had to be stopped because of too many deaths in the antioxidant group. DrM says in his book that there is more evidence that vegetables and fruits are beneficial through hormesis from their phytochemicals rather than due to antioxidant properties.

I'm interested that so many foods are touted as being good for you because they contain antioxidants and yet the evidence for antioxidants being beneficial is poor. Indeed a large study in which people were given antioxidant supplements had to be stopped because of too many deaths in the antioxidant group.

Wasn't the issue that antioxidants taken as supplements as opposed to contained in "real" food do not have the same effect? I also remember the beta-carotene studie, indicating higher cancer risk in the supplement group. That doesn't mean that beta-carotene is not beneficial if taken in the form of veggies (i.e. together with fiber, together with other micro-nutrients, and in physiological doses because unless you're a rabbit, overdosing on carrots is hard).
Please tell me this is correct - I eat my dark chocolate and drink my red wine exclusively because of the antioxidants and resveratrol etc, not because I like the stuff!!

I eat my dark chocolate and drink my red wine exclusively because of the antioxidants and resveratrol etc, not because I like the stuff!!

... and me the complete opposite!...

I'm interested in the hormesis hypothesis. Any evidence for this?

[carorees]

Coffecat: The point about the antioxidants in vegetables etc being OK but antioxidant supplements increasing mortality is that perhaps it is NOT the antioxidants in veggies (and choc and red wine) that helps us (as the concentrations are too low) but in fact the mild poison of the phytochemicals resulting in hormesis. When antioxidants were taken in higher doses in the form of supplements they were harmful. So we can still eat the dark chocolate and red wine etc but not claim that it is the antioxidants that are good for us, we are poisoning ourselves to make us live longer!!! And of course, just because some so-called 'superfood' is high in antioxidants does not mean that it will be beneficial.

Mark Mattson has written a paper about it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253665/

What about oat milk? Is this OK - from all perspectives. Soy products I know play havoc with thyroid